Walton Heath Old & New Preview: Two Courses, One Rivalry

Nish 0:00

Every good story is about the journey. And this is a story of our journey trying to play the top 100 courses in the UK and Ireland in just ten years. This is the top 100 in 10 Golf Podcast. Episode 78. The Walton Heath Preview. Walton Heaths. Isn’t it Nish. Heaths multiple. Well it and as Chris has indicated, this preview is a little bit different to normal. So normally it’s one course, one preview. We do one review, and kind of that’s it. But here we’re playing both courses, the old course and the new course at Walton Heath. We’re playing them back to back. We’re going to be in the same Surrey Heathland. We’re going to be under the same Surrey skies, hopefully sunny. And it’s the same architect. But apparently they have two very different characters, which Chris is going to get into. So this preview is doing a bit of double duty today. Look, we’re going to give you the history of the club as a whole, and then obviously we’re going to split our course characteristics into the two. And then Jim is going to give who you may have forgotten about, but Jim. I certainly have. Is he? Yeah. I think we’d forgotten that we hadn’t seen him for 16 months or whatever we worked out.

Jim 1:13

Yeah, he’s gonna be able to tell me, you bastards. Yeah.

Nish 1:18

Like galavanting with all the celebrity friends now. Let’s tease it with it. It’s a bit of a rivalry between these two courses. I think it’s a bit of a narrative running through this old and new thing. Um, however, just to give you a bit of a scale setter of what’s going on with Walton Heath, the old course has been in the top 100 courses in the world ever since rankings began in 1938. Is that the actual year that rankings began, or have you just made that? That’s the actual year that rankings began, 1938. It might be the UK actually rather than the world. But it’s been ranked in the top 100 ever since then. And it’s basically about as serious as Heathland Golf kind of gets. And the new course.

Chris 2:05

What’s that?

Nish 2:05

When the rankings started.

Chris 2:08

I just assumed that was like an internet phenomenon.

Nish 2:10

No, 1938.

Chris 2:11

It would have been ranking golf courses in 1938. In what format?

Nish 2:14

If there were a proper book, so you’d get like a book published, yeah, it would be like um updated every time. A bit like that, yeah, yeah. And it would just be updated every whatever number of years they decide to update it, and and if there was any significant changes. I mean, if you think about it in that time, you know, we’d we’re talking about a real golden age of courses being updated and things like that because the architects involved. I mean maybe that’s what we should do, Nish.

Chris 2:40

Maybe we should sack off all these modern online change every week top 100 golf lists and just get a 1938 version of the top 100 golf courses and just play that one. Some of them might not exist there. True. True.

Nish 2:53

Well, I mean they’re being made into a test because we’re gonna have to play 90, Jim. Everything’s been made up anyway, so might as well just make that up as well. Why not? Let’s just do it. Um, but yeah, you know, it’s uh it fascinating. I thought it was absolutely fascinating. But the the new course has also been in the top 100 in the UK ever since it entered the rankings kind of thing, and it’s it’s never left. So it’s real at a similar sort of time, and then they’ll call the old new. No, don’t sorry, no, no, sorry, apologies for that. Uh didn’t quite get into preparation for that. Yeah, talking about lack of preparation, Chris. You can see I’m I’m filling, I’m filling your section here, so my section doesn’t have to be uh I didn’t realise we were getting into filibustering territory so so soon. Not even hit 100 uh episodes yet, which is coming up soon.

Chris 3:47

No point tending, but I’m just boycotting your uh your section so my section doesn’t have to be. Had to get boycotting there again, didn’t you?

Nish 3:55

Now

– Follow the Show & Chart Update

Nish 3:56

look, before we get into this episode, and and we have apologies to cut this riveting banter short, but you’re listening right now clearly, or you’re watching us, and many of you have hit follow, and many of you have have hit subscribe on YouTube. But if you haven’t, please do so now. Uh, it’s the single biggest indicator to all the algorithms that people actually like this content. Now, I was doing my regular scrolling through the podcast charts as I always do, it’s my unusual morning routine, and we went up to 16, which is the joint highest ranking we’ve ever had on Apple Podcasts. Um, and we we’re just constantly hovering in that top 20, and it’s amazing sort of seeing all these big, big hitter podcasts that then suddenly ours just pops up in the middle of it all, and um, it’s wonderful. So please keep feeding the algo, please keep getting this recommended out to people. I get loads of messages of people, and they say, look, you know, and we’re coming we’re in summer season now, full swing golf season. I’m just gonna go and play Hollinwell. I discovered your podcast because I searched Hollinwell on Spotify, found this episode, and it was brilliant, really enjoyed it. So um that’s a wonderful vote of confidence. Um, and yeah, please please do help us out with that. Now back to this amazing repartee that we’ve um embarked upon. Now, before we do go into actual golf, I feel like there’s a couple of bits of congratulations in order. So, number one, Geoffrey Boycott has got a new job, which I’m pretty dismayed about. I mean, my golf buddy’s gone. I know, yeah.

Jim 5:37

So, how many days a week are you working now?

Nish 5:39

All five of them, Jim. Every single one of them. Yeah, I know, mate. That’s commitment, isn’t it? Can you imagine eight, nine years ago saying to somebody, Oh, it’s disgusting you’ve got a five-day a week check. Yeah, and yet here we are.

Jim 5:56

I thought we paid we pay people to just like not work anymore.

Nish 6:00

Oh Jim’s getting political, and that’s where it’ll stop, and that’s where it’ll stop, yeah, absolutely. Um, the other bit of congratulations, totally personal, and it’s this wonderful bit of clarit and blue that’s hung up from my TV that says winners 26. That is the last time, since the last time we all got on a recording together, Aston Villa have won the Europa League, which I watched with my kids, and it was a privilege doing so. Uh, because I don’t know if it’s ever gonna happen again, but it was brilliant. About six months ago, Nish. Sure, everyone’s forgotten about that one now. The World Cup’s on now, mate. The World Cup’s on now, yeah. Four weeks ago, three weeks ago, four about Aston Villa. Four weeks ago. I mean, and it’s my podcast, so I’m muting you as this is going on. Uh, so yeah, we’ve been ecstatic, and obviously now we’re in the midst of an England World Cup, so um the football feast continues now. Let’s get back to this actual episode about Walton Heath Golf Club. So, Walton Heath, how the bookings come back. We’re doing a golf pairs event, so we’re gonna set our differences aside, Chris. And uh says a pair and win. Absolutely.

Chris 7:14

I’m

– Green Fees, Format & The Pairs Event

Chris 7:15

I’m going out the night before and I’m gonna come in at 4am. I’m gonna sleep on your sleep on your porch just in the you’re more than I’ll leave the door open for you. Again, again, come on. I’m gonna leave the door open so you can just come in and then I’m just I’m not gonna play the first eight holes, I’m just gonna start on the start on the ninth tee. That’s all right.

Nish 7:35

That’s not been any different to how you’ve been playing recently, anyway. So I wouldn’t I wouldn’t worry too much about it. But um well look, I’ll give you the the the num some numbers to start the the preview with, and that is ranking. So we said about the old course, it’s ranked 39. Currently, I think it’s gone up a little bit um since that, and it has been an ever-present since rankings began. The new course is ranked 88, uh, probably has gone up a little bit again, uh, and again, since it was in, that’s been an ever-present. So we’re looking at some heavyweight um courses here, and the rate to play 18 holes is 275 pounds, and 36 holes in the day is 400 pounds. So, like I say, we’ve got it a bit cheaper because we’re doing a golf pairs event. Is that for old and new? Yeah, can you do that as a as a day package? You can do as a day, yeah. Yeah, there’s quite a lot because there’s a lot of courses down that way that that that do that to the bark should do that.

Jim 8:31

Um you’re playing both quarters in the same day.

Nish 8:35

No, we’re doing them on separate days. Two days, yeah. Like two days. Well, because it’s a golf pairs event, there’s all the T slots are booked up on the on each course, sort of thing, so it’s uh yeah, it’s been split over two days. Um now I’m gonna give you I’ve got four really really good facts. There was a lot of dross in there as well, but I’ve got four really, really good historical facts about this golf course. I’m gonna split them into two and two. I’ll do two, then Chris can tell us about a course, and then I’ll do another two, and then Jim can I don’t know. We’ll do it that way. We’ll try and split split the preview up a little bit. So the first one is about the architect of the course, which is a gentleman called Herbert Fowler. Now, Herbert Fowler and Walton Heath are associated together because they’re they’re actually related in that Herbert Fowler’s brother-in-law um is the one who invited him along to design the courses at Walton Heath. And here’s the thing he was an amateur golfer, he wasn’t a professional golf architect at the time. So Walton Heath are his first

– Herbert Fowler: The Accidental Architect

Nish 9:45

attempts at designing a golf course for this, which is crazy. The guy who was the club’s founder was a guy called Sir Cosmo Bonsor. Wonderful name. Um, but Herbert Fowler, if you haven’t heard of him, and you might not have if you’re not into golf architecture, if the names follow us around now, but he designed other top 100 courses such as Saunton, uh down south, um, Cruden Bay, very far up north, the Berkshire, and that’s the blue and the red course, Aber dovey, which we’ve played, Delamere, which we played and loved, and a little-known golf course called Pebble Beach over in the States. So, yeah, Walton Heath was where it all started. Pretty amazing, right? Nice, pretty amazing. Now, my second fact goes on to another big hitter in our world, um, and that’s the first uh the person who was the the professional, the first professional at Walton Heath. And that was a little-known gentleman called James Braid. Now, James Braid, probably one of the most prolific. Are we gonna put it out there and say he’s the most prolific golf course designer, redesigner ever? Yeah, yeah, I’d say certain. I think it’s a fair, fair comment. Seems like everything has had a James Braid retouch somewhere or he’s been consulted about something. So he was a professional at Walton Heath for 46 years from 1904 through to 1950. And the only reason he was no longer the professional after 1950, because 1950 is the year that James Braid

– James Braid’s Untouched Masterpiece

Nish 11:26

died. Um, now in that time, he’s credited with designing something like 400 golf courses around the world, right? And in that 400 year a 400 course redesign and design history, he never once redesigned a single hole of Herbert Fowler’s original old course design. Intentionally, or just because he didn’t well, he intentionally didn’t do it because he respected it too much. He said um that when he compared it to almost every other course in Britain, he felt no need to tinker with it.

Jim 12:07

Or he was too busy build designing Pebble Beach.

Nish 12:11

Well, I don’t know. I mean it’s high price. I mean, you’re just there, aren’t you? Like, you know, I bet I I hazard against the professionals at golf courses now that we play where they’re like, I’d probably do that a little bit differently because I’ve played it a few times and I’ve heard from other people. But for him to be there for 40, what is it, 46 years and not once go, hello? I’m James Braid, pretty good designer. I don’t know if you’ve heard of me, but I think we should just kind of elevate this T or like none of it, which is crazy, absolutely crazy.

Chris 12:41

Yeah, I mean so you’re saying that he’s never touched a single hole at Walton Heath or any of his any courses. Yeah, Walton Heath, right. Okay, fine, right? Okay.

Nish 12:51

I thought is that less impressive?

Chris 12:53

Well, well, I mean, yeah, it is, but I was just thinking because like uh every course we played, it feels like well, I’d say 90% of them have probably had at least two or three of those big architects at some point doing some doing something to it. So that would be quite impressive if he’d done 400 courses and he decided that he’d not changed any of the holes on any of those 400 courses. That would be that would be pretty exceptional.

Nish 13:13

I mean, I just think like we know we recently we played Formy, didn’t we? And that had like was it four of them had been there or something like that? Was it like obviously Donald Steel never heard of him, but it was like Colt, Braid, old Tom Morris. It was like they’ve all had a all had a little little tinker, but nothing at Walton Heath. That’s that was crazy. So that that was my that was my second interesting fact about the design um that’s out there for the for the design the course architecture people out there. Um so I’m gonna pass the baton over to you, Chris. You tell us a little bit about these courses that we’re gonna play.

– Heathland, Heather & the M25

Chris 13:48

Yeah, so let you say, so a couple of courses, so you’ve got the old and the new built at similar sort of time a long, long time ago. I’ve not got the dates for that. 1903 was the old, I don’t know when the new was. Thanks for that, Nish. Um but yeah, like it sounds like it’s kind of classic Heatland territory. So I think I’ve read a little bit, it says um it’s got the most heather of any course in the UK, which sounds both impressive and slightly daunting. Um and thirdly, made up, and thirdly probably made up, yeah. Who’s who’s actually who’s measuring that, right? Who’s measuring it? AI, AI’s done it, AI has measured it. Google, Google Maps have measured it. Um, but yeah, it’s like very close to London, right? So it’s inside the M25. So I mean I this is you know, just from speaking to people that you know, whilst we’ve been speaking on the podcast, a lot of people have said the M25 has quite a big impact on your experience of it around there, because it’s literally like next to it. Um, so that’s gonna be interesting because I think at one point it probably was like outside of London in a nice, you know, like wooded area and you know, secluded and kind of quiet, but it sounds like it’s not necessarily that anymore. Um, but yeah, it’s gonna be one of those quintessential English places, I think, isn’t it? It’s kind of up there with the Sunningdales of the world, it’s that kind of oldy world y kind of vibe, I think, isn’t it? Maybe not quite to the same level as Sunningdale, but um, it’s certainly in that bracket, isn’t it? Of kind of classic Heatland London, West of London kind of courses. Um, yeah, so again, it’s kind of I believe that Fowler designed it apparently as like as like a lynx course, even though it’s kind of inland 20 miles from from the sea. Um, not entirely sure what that means, I guess. There’s just just lots of deep bunkers, I’m thinking. Um, but yeah, kind of rippling rippling fairways and yeah, lots of cross bunkers and and all that kind of stuff.

Nish 15:46

Well, what was our last place described as an inland links? Was Ganton, and then we got we had a fabulous time at Ganton, didn’t we?

Chris 15:51

We love Ganton. So yeah, that’s gonna be it’s gonna be interesting.

Jim 15:54

Uh but then again, you’re playing in summer where the heather is gonna be out in falls.

Chris 15:59

Yeah, when are we playing? Like end of July. So yeah, the Heather is gonna be probably just about to be in its peak, peak bloom.

Jim 16:09

Yeah, yeah. Although, I see to be honest, it’ll be they’ll be scorched off with all these heat waves.

Chris 16:16

At least it looks nice when you’re firing balls into it, never to be seen again, I suppose. Again, speak for yourself, yeah. Yeah, but one of those courses that I think it’s basically no kind of real trickery or cunning, it’s just kind of as you see it. So there’s not gonna be loads of like blind shots or anything like that. It’s one of those things that um it is as it looks. Um but having said that, you can see it all, but it’s just difficult. It sounds like it’s doesn’t sound like it’s an easy track at all. Both both courses, but so specifically the the old sounds like it’s it’s a tough old course.

Nish 16:52

Now the difficulty do did did we work out what our handicaps get bumped up by because that’s given us a bit of an indication on difficulty before, hasn’t it? I think five or six might have been the most ever been.

Chris 17:05

Um no, we didn’t work that out, Nish. I think as a collective, we did not work that out. Wasn’t my job at all.

Nish 17:12

We we um I I think I had a quick glance, and so my my newly reduced 16.3 handicap goes up to um are you ready for this on the old course? On the old course, it goes up from 16.3 to 24. Whoosh. That’s an eight-point uplift on your handicap. Surely not. That is the highest. That is, I’ve got no idea what T that’s off. But to be off the back T’s that I mean it’s got to be for that number, yeah. But it was just on a handicap table I saw somewhere very, very quickly. On the new course, it’s 22. Yeah, I get mine going up from 11 to 13. Oh, okay. So that’s off what off the whatever the yellows are or whatever the equivalent is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh phew, thank God for that. Because I was like, that’s a significant jump in your in your handicap. Um, okay, right, fine. That that that that does yeah, I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s gonna be that brutal.

Chris 18:15

I mean, that’s like worse than I think that’d be the worst we’ve had, wouldn’t it?

Nish 18:18

Yeah, I’d be more than Trump.

Chris 18:19

Yeah, fuck that. It can’t be that it can’t be that hard.

Nish 18:24

No, I’m gonna save this clip. It can’t be that hard.

Jim 18:29

I’m gonna save it until I well you look at the you look you look at some of the reviews, it’s it’s like the head has a personal vendetta against golf balls. Um, once your ball enters the heather, you may as well start writing it to victory. Um bring plenty of balls and maybe a therapist. A therapist. So uh yeah, huge bunkers, dense heather. It probably deserves that kind of fear rating.

Chris 19:00

Yeah. Yeah. Again, uh interesting, like you say, that generally speaking, the old courses versus new courses, the old course would be much shorter and kind of a bit quirkier, generally speaking, I think, from what we’ve seen so far. Whereas in this instance, the old course is like 7,400 yards off the backs and the and the new is 7,000 yards. So the old is actually much longer because over time that’s that’s been I mean it’s obviously the better of the two courses, but that’s been developed and built out for championship golf. So um that’s an odd thing, isn’t it? That that whole new, old new thing, you know, usually I guess it’s not that odd if you think about it, in terms of if you’ve built one course in 1875 and then you built another course in 1925 or whatever, technology’s changed, you know, distances have changed in terms of how you fire you’re hitting it and all that kind of stuff, so it makes sense that they would you know, as time progresses, golf courses get longer, right? That’s just the yeah, that’s what I mean.

Nish 19:55

So why have they made the new one shorter?

Chris 19:57

Yeah, that’s exactly well. I don’t think the other thing they’ve just made the old one longer. Oh, is that what’s happened? The old one. Yeah, yeah. So I think the old one’s been lengthened over time. Right. Yeah. So I I assume if you play it off like the yellows or whatever, it’s probably you’re probably playing more like the old kind of course. Whereas if you go and play off the back tees, it’s gonna be much, much longer.

Nish 20:17

I mean, I’m fascinated by the old new thing, if I’m honest, because um we’ve not yet played an old new setup.

Chris 20:27

No, we’ve played we’ve played an old at Trump, but not played the new yet. Yeah, the newest old course we’ve played. Which is like 10 years old or whatever.

Nish 20:37

But it’s like um, you know, obviously in these in these, we’re saying they’re built around about the same time, aren’t we? Roughly. Not gonna they weren’t that far apart whether the old and new at Walton Heath. Old sits in and hasn’t come out of the rankings ever since whatever, you know, new isn’t as high. Um you know, it’s uh is old, is the name old a bit like a royal? You know, it kind of conveys a little sense. Yeah, old money versus new money.

Chris 21:12

Kings and queens, isn’t it? At Glen eagles.

Nish 21:15

Yeah, a little bit like that, you know. Um it’s yeah, it’d be interesting doing the comparison of the two day one day after the other. Which are we which order are we playing in? Do you know? We’ve got I think we’re going old than new, I think. But it’s like you know, because we obviously we’ve played back to back, sometimes play back to back to back, but we’ve they’re totally different golf courses and the totally different places to play. Like this is this is like putting two you know, two Formula One drivers in the same car, isn’t it? And just going right now, now you get to find out the real which is the best. I don’t know how it how that’s gonna play out for us.

Chris 21:52

You’re referring to us as Formula One drivers, isn’t that?

Nish 21:54

No, the course, the course as a Formula One driver, but you know, like I’m I’m intrigued to find out how we’re gonna Score it and compare the two. It’s a deep decent disparity in rankings, isn’t it? 39 and 88.

Chris 22:09

Yeah. Yeah.

Nish 22:10

Yeah.

Chris 22:11

But again, that was that was similar to to Glen eagles, right? And we both came off Glen eagles preferring Queens. You know, Kings was there in like the 20s, 30s, something that was right there, and King Queens was down like mid-90s, wasn’t it, when we played it? Um, and I think we both on balance preferred preferred Queens, didn’t we? Um interesting.

Nish 22:35

It’s just an interesting one. It’s that whole kind of finding out which one is gonna be the favourite out of the two, but we play them back to back. There’s a danger we forget what what the first course was like, because uh you you you just play the you play the second one. Yeah, interesting that, isn’t it? Interesting. Are there any sort of whole particular holes that are worth picking up?

Chris 22:58

Um so it sounds like the first at the at the old is is a bit of a weird, so it’s described as essentially a rectangular field just over 200 yards of length with a Tee at one end and a bunker and a green at the other. So I’m not sure that’s a good thing or a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, long par three opener.

Nish 23:16

We’ve had that on a couple. We had where do we have that? We had that lip hook, didn’t we?

Chris 23:18

As well, that was a par three opening. A nice opening hole. It’s like downhill par three. But this sounds less this sounds less nice. This doesn’t sound very aesthetically pleasing, does it? I mean, it must be alright if Braid didn’t seem see fit to change anything on it. Maybe he just fucking gave up. He was like played the first, I was like, This is dog shit, I’m not even not even bothering to this. I can’t change this. Bullshit, not touching any of this. Then again, we’ve got maybe it’s a surrey thing, but then we’ve got a busy road to cross to get over onto the seventh the the last seven. The M25, mate. Yeah, yeah. We’ve got the M25, so you know, take your life on your own hands.

Jim 23:57

Right, it’s just it’s like a it’s like the world’s biggest car park anyway, you’ll be alright.

Nish 24:01

Yeah, true. It’s funny, isn’t it? The road thing actually, because um obviously we we did that little Surrey trip, Hampshire trip sort of thing, sorry, Hampshire borders or whatever it was, and we did um Liphook and Swinley Forest, and it was odd, wasn’t it, being in such an idyllic place and then having a road to cross over and not wait for traffic to zoom by and then cross. Yeah, and then also just even like you’re on this beautiful hole of golf in these beautiful trees and all that, and you just hear this din of traffic. Yeah, it was it was an odd experience.

Chris 24:34

That was quite a that was a busy road, wasn’t it? Like you’d think in this day and age we could build a fucking tunnel or a bridge or something to negate that rather than just walking over the middle of a busy road with your golf clubs on your back.

Nish 24:44

But I mean, yeah, they were like I think it was like a 60 mile-an-hour road as well. We just like stood on the side of it. It was like, uh are we alright? I don’t think I signed up for this, like that kind of thing. So um more will be revealed in our reviews. But yeah, an odd odd thing that isn’t it, I suppose, about how you can’t get away from from roads. But I think there’s very few courses even here that I’d genuinely hear a motor vehicle on.

Chris 25:10

A motor vehicle, it’s because we live in the north and this, we don’t have no motor vehicles up here, yeah. Yeah, it’s still all horse and car.

Jim 25:17

In about five years you won’t be able to hear anything because they’ll all be electric.

Nish 25:22

Yeah, which bloody hell, Jim. You’re in you’re in full uh full political honors today. Is there any um do you have more to add to your stuff, Christopher? I’ll add to two other hilarious facts.

Chris 25:38

The fourth is called the brute, so I’ll leave it at that. Um yeah, that sounds like on the old, on the old course. On the old that is, yeah, yeah. Over 500 yards par four from the tips.

Nish 25:51

Oh my god.

Chris 25:52

Yeah. So that should be interesting. Okay, yeah. Um, yeah, and then it sounds like it’s got a pretty, a pretty decent, difficult closing section as well. Last few holes. And again, are we talking old or new here? Uh again, this is all old.

Nish 26:09

Yeah,

– Royalty, PMs & the 1981 Ryder Cup

Nish 26:10

yeah. All old, okay. So you’re doing all old at the minute. You’re telling us all about the old. Ah, right, wonderful. Okay, interesting. Well, look, we’re we’re we’re we’re we’re talking about old here, so we’ll we’ll we’ll go into more old historical factoids now. Um the very first captain of Walton Heath Golf Club was Edward Prince of Wales, who later very briefly became Edward VIII before abdicating. Um, and he’s the only reigning monarch in history to have held a position of golf club captain. We’ve heard this story somewhere before, Nish. I think we heard it, and it was uh there was a Prince of Wales was a captain. That’s right. Yeah, it wasn’t obviously David’s or St. David’s, but obviously didn’t become king. Right, okay. While he was captain. Okay. So there’s this there’s cross-blending. Although you put picked up on a good point here, haven’t you, Chris? Because a lot of these clubs claim stuff, don’t they? Yeah, and is it even right? That happens in Scotland loads. Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, it was so funny in Scotland, it’s just like, yeah, you don’t you can’t you’ve got to check check all these claims properly.

Jim 27:18

It’s like William Wallace was the first president, and you know uh love that.

Nish 27:26

Um, and then on top of that, uh, there have been four British prime ministers who’ve been members of Walton Heath to give you some idea of the kind of company that’s kept here. Um and I’ll I’ll I’ll give you a couple of names. Uh David Lloyd George, massive, like big minister name the Great War. Arthur Balfour, um quite a topical, topical name, and then Sir Winston Churchill have been members of uh I’m very, very disappointed that Edward Heath isn’t on that list.

Chris 28:03

Feels like a missed opportunity.

Nish 28:06

Yeah, well apparently Churchill was quite a regular player during the inter interwar years and and during war itself, and I think it does feel like it’s quite a uh fate. We we said it at Swindley Forest, didn’t we, Chris, when we were sat having our um smoked salmon and poached eggs on toast, and we were like this clubhouse such twats. Oh mate, absolute posho love easy. You’ve moved on.

Chris 28:33

You’re smoking in the podcast, Jim. Sorry? No, you’re smoking in the podcast. No, Jim is totally smoking in the podcast-ish. I’m not smoking, dobbing him in. You’re not allowed to do that, mate. That’s it’s off-com rules. No smoking policy, Jim. Did you not read the policy when it got sent out?

Nish 28:49

No smoking, no drinking, no fun during the We sent you your HR document, your HR um policy handbook. Um, I’m sure you received it. Um, but it felt uh like Swinley Forest was one of those places, so it felt like the fate of nations have been decided on that golf course and in that clubhouse. That was that’s my comment, unless you just rubbed that off. You don’t remember which fucking course we’re playing, Chris. Uh forget remembering what you said in Swinley Forest. Um yeah, so uh yeah, I mean that’s pretty crazy. Now that that’s quite a lot of old stuff. Let’s get into some new, more relevant history to us. Um then the Ryder Cup, which is my other visual aid from today’s episode. Over my right shoulder is a poster that I got from SA, which has up to 2018, has all the Ryder Cup venues on. And Walton Heath is another Ryder Cup venue in 1981. It hosted the Ryder Cup. Um right, 1981, so it’s pretty pretty recently then. Pretty recent, yeah. Um to forget, which is probably why it does it’s not sat in our psyche because we got absolutely battered by a score of 18 and a half to nine and a half, so that was a full-on hammering. Um but what they did is they used a composite course of old and new to stretch it into one big sort of championship layout, which I thought was quite a good um good little fact, and that should take us into Chris telling us about the new course. Sorry, it’s the whole thing.

– Inside the New Course

Chris 30:16

I wasn’t listening to you there. What did you say? Uh the new course, yeah. So the new course, um yeah. I mean, I guess it’s it’s very similar in terms of the land and the layout. So again, kind of traditional sort of Heathland. Sounds like the condition at both sounds incredible. So like the greens sound like they’re just like impeccable, beautiful. I’m looking forward to that, but difficult. So lots of undulations. Uh, so I think it’s gonna be kind of akin to lip hook we played the other day, which was I think some of the trickiest greens I’ve ever put it on. Um, they were hard, very fast, difficult to read, tricky. Um so yeah, so I think yeah, similar kind of set out. Um, so yeah, it sounds like it’s a bit of an easier opener at the new, so it might lull you into a bit of a false sense of security over the first few holes. Um, but then by the time you get around to the fifth, it kind of gets more difficult. Struck index one. Um yeah, 460-yard par four. So it’s some long par fours. So yeah, again, it’s one of those courses that’s uh you’ve got to be accurate, otherwise you lose your ball, but you’ve also got to be long because they’re quite long. So I think I think most of the Heathons we’ve played so far have been reasonably short. So you can you can get away with kind of sticking an eye, you know, playing an eye off a Tee and getting in position and kind of going from there. I think this is gonna be more like a sort of Wentworth type style course where you you need to give it a good bash and get it down there to get away and have a chance of scoring on the hole, but then you’ve got the risk of fucking losing your ball on every hole, which I probably will. So I think it’s gonna be tough. I think it’s gonna be a tough challenge for sure.

Nish 32:07

Um does that mean it’s gonna count in our favour or not that we’re playing a pairs event? Uh I can’t figure it out. I don’t know what’s gonna happen.

Chris 32:19

I mean, if my if my current form in sort of the London area of golf courses continues, then actually to be fair, I played pretty well at Swinley Forest, didn’t I? So maybe it’s maybe I’m on an upward trajectory. But before that, every time I’ve played like at one of the Heathline courses down there, I’ve just had the shanks and just been like the worst golf I’ve ever played. Um so we’ll see.

Nish 32:41

We’ll see how we go. I uh good time to bring you in, wasn’t it? Um you gave us a bit of a flavour of reviews. Is there anything else that piqued your interest as you were scrolling the internet apart from the obvious?

Jim 32:54

Uh not really, actually. Everybody seems to be kind of glowing praise for the um what’s wrong with these people? I don’t know. We just we just need Sally from Barnsley just to say, you know, I’ll I went there and the chips were shit, you know, or something like that. Or yeah, uh worth every penny, but my wallet disagrees. The other thing I’m talking about is if you find every fairway bunker, you’ve successfully completed the tour. The bunkering is so famous, apparently.

Nish 33:29

Yeah, with the wallet thing as well. So I think we’ve paid because the pairs event and it’s discounted. We I think we’ve paid like 320 quid to play the two courses on two separate days. Um I mean I I feel like that’s a that’s a good deal because you get the break in between as well. So, like for what we’re doing it for, I think if we play them back to back on the same day, that’s a tough gig trying to remember the courses. It feels like it’s box ticking if you play them on the same day, doesn’t it? Yeah, it does to me. I feel I don’t know, never done we’ve never done it before, so I suppose we don’t really know, but um yeah, I mean, how do you rate two vastly different courses in even in your head? Like, you know, they just sort of will all blend into one, wouldn’t they? Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I suppose it’s it’s a new thing, isn’t it? We’re not used to that up here, you know. We’re not used to there’s not enough space or there’s never been enough inclination for somebody to build a a Delamere and a Delamere new, you know, that kind of thing, or a Birkdale and a Birkdale new. So you don’t we don’t see that. It’s just like a whole different different world down there. Um golfing world, I suppose. But um uh yes, any other reviews, Jim, or do you want to tell us about our signature hole challenges and side bets?

Jim 34:45

Yeah,

– Signature Holes & Handicap Shock

Jim 34:46

well, I say all the all the all the reviews seem to be glowingly positive, so that’s just dull. Um I’m sorry, you’re gonna have a shit time. No, you’re not, you’re gonna have an amazing time. Um in terms of the signature holes. Well, the old course is the par four for 161 yards.

Nish 35:08

Second hole. What oh, it’s the second hold, right? Okay, hold two. I need to write these down, Jim, because we’ve not the last time we did a preview a bit in advance. We completely forgot what the we couldn’t listen to it because they hadn’t released the episode yet. So we’re like, ah, how do we do this?

Jim 35:24

You should have been recording now, surely.

Nish 35:26

Oh, I have it, but we were on the we were on the ferry to Castletown, so we were like Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim 35:31

Where do we get this from? Yeah, it’s like you you messaged me on the like Friday night off Thursday night I’m pissed.

Nish 35:38

I was just like surely if the the the one person well for the two reasons why you’d remember that. Number one, you remember absolutely everything, and number two, you set the bloody challenge. So I was like, Matt, he’s got a better chance of remembering what we’ve got to do than I do. Anyway, I digress. The new uh the the new course, Jim. Uh that’s the old course, yeah. So the old course is is poll two.

Jim 36:01

Yeah. The new course is the 16th, which is a 535 par five.

Nish 36:11

I think you can say par four then.

Chris 36:14

Yeah.

Jim 36:14

That would be a challenge, wouldn’t it, anyway? So I think the I think the old course, the set the second hole there is is you know pretty panoramic elevator Tee dog left dog leg to the left. So I think that’ll be pretty spectacular, actually. That that hole. That’s on the new course, is it? No, that’s that’s the that’s the old course. So that’s the second hole.

Nish 36:37

Oh, that’s the second hole on the new on the old course, yeah. Okay, yeah, fine. Yeah. Um okay. And then you have to set us a side bet gym.

Jim 36:49

Well this is a difficult one because usually on the side bets, and particularly when it’s a course that’s held the Ryder Cup, it’s match play, isn’t it?

Chris 37:01

True. So we’re doing a 36-hole matchplay.

Jim 37:10

But obviously, given that you’re in a tournament, it’s slightly.

Nish 37:15

Well, it’s better ball, isn’t it? So we have to play our own ball anyway. Yeah.

Chris 37:19

Um why don’t we do why don’t we do most holes? It gets a bit difficult, isn’t it, when we draw, but yeah, most holes.

Nish 37:26

It’s got to be a match play. It’s Ryder Cup venue, isn’t it? Yeah, yeah. We set that precedent at the start. We’re just doing a 36-hole match play over two days. Fuck it, why not? Yeah.

Chris 37:36

Yeah.

Nish 37:37

Seems like a logical thing to do, doesn’t it?

Jim 37:39

Sure thing, yeah.

– Side Bets, The Walton Way & What’s Next

Nish 37:40

I mean, if they went composite, we’ll go composite and just not do the composite instead of just add it all up to all up together. Composite plus, we’ll call it. Yeah, if you can’t be bothered, we can’t be bothered. That’s how it works. Um, okay, I like that. Um, there’s a couple of now now I’m I I don’t know how bizarrely I’d I’d I’d prepped, but I’ve got a little thing here, it says um my little notes on the sections. Uh section four, Chris is gonna do course characteristics. Have some below in case Chris hasn’t got much, and I will now refer to those uh notes that I made. Um so a couple of holes to watch out for. Uh the old course, the 16th, par five, 510 yards. Um is uh it’s called one of the greatest holes in the game. And again, I always take these things with a pinch of salt. Um, but it took its inspiration from the tee shot from the 7th at St Andrews and the approach from the 11th at St. Andrews. And I don’t know what those holes are, but they’re some good places to take inspiration from. And the guy who uh was the mastermind behind Loch Lomond rated don’t mention Loch Lomond. Oh, it will get mentioned more, um reportedly rating the rated the closing stretch at the old course as as good as any in golf with this 16th at the heart of that stretch. Uh then there’s a an amaz there’s an amazing par three, which is a 17th on the old course, um, which has a brutal uh bunker on it. So I look forward to ending up in there, that’ll be nice. And then on the new course, there’s a coffin bunker on the third hole, which is par four. So we’ll uh again get some lovely footage of me in a in the coffin bunker. Our our playing partners are gonna hate us, aren’t they? Like, what the hell is going on here? Um, so yeah, so those are my little kind of whole holes to watch. They’re all on the old course, and the new course didn’t really pick out um there was a new course, the the coffee monk hole, the the third, but that closing stretch on the old is supposed to be magnificent, and again you’ll have that clubhouse in the background. That seems to be a feature of Surrey Golf. Um you’ve always got a beautiful clubhouse, you’re you’re approaching to it, um, and it just puts you in a good mood straight away, doesn’t it? Um, so before we close up this episode, one thing I wanted to bring up, uh, very much to Walton Heath’s credit, I would say, is something called the Walton Way. Now that’s how they describe their hospitality to all golfers, not just members and visitors, but just everybody who comes there. So um, their ethos is that the Walton Way dictates that everybody is treated like a member for the day, and you therefore get the hospitality uh that you deserve as either a guest, member’s guest, full-paying visitor, whatever it is. And uh their sort of motto type thing is that you know, while you’re drawn to Walton Heath for the golf, you will very much come back for the hospitality, and that I think sums up probably the experience we’re gonna have there.

Chris 41:02

It’s interesting, isn’t it? A bit of a divergence from some of the other clubs around there that essentially want to put you off being there and don’t want you there. Yeah, I get the feeling it’s a friendlier vibe. Yeah, that’s good. It’s good to know. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t say anybody’s a bit more friendly.

Nish 41:18

You two person. I’m alright, mate. Everyone likes me.

Chris 41:24

Me not me not so much. I’m used to it by now though. That’s fine.

Nish 41:27

Yeah, no, it was uh it it you know, it’s it’s nice that that if if you know if that’s put front and centre on your website, there’s uh they’re they’re lofty words to to meet to meet up expectations there, aren’t they? So uh that’s good. And actually, because we’re going on the pairs event, I remember going into uh it the Ganton round with the golf pairs event was was quite early days, wasn’t it? In in our quest and playing golf and all that kind of thing. And I remember that um we just didn’t know what to expect per se. I’m not expecting anything from the actual event because I thought it was it was odd organisation, if I’m honest. But um the the good thing that I found was going into a club like Ganton, and I’d been forewarned that they can be a bit funny at Ganton, not funny ha ha, but just funny, you know, with with you. Uh but because everybody was there on the pairs event, and essentially they’ve just kind of dry-hired the course in the club, right? So they were lovely, all the staff were amazing. I got let into bits of the clubhouse that I probably wouldn’t have been able to get into normally. So I’m I’m thinking again, we’re gonna get a good um, we’re gonna have a good drink afterwards, and we’ll like we’ll get a good welcome and good experience and be looked after really well uh by by Walton He.

Chris 42:36

So you’re gonna you’re gonna elevate yourself to like the American style of obnoxious tourist than Nish on the day, just be like fucking.

Nish 42:50

I I took a very keen interest in the Varden room when John the Steward at Ganton was showing me round and he was very, very kind and uh knowledgeable guide for me that day. Um it was brilliant.

Jim 43:05

I loved that with it with it with any of the other gang who you’ve met um down in the surrey way of last year.

Nish 43:13

No, just us two just us two with two two unfortunate souls who will be paired up with us. Yeah, good luck to you guys. Uh we guarantee you you’ll have a good laugh. I know that whether that’s with us or at us is just you getting out of bunkers, Nish. Is that I know, I know. I need to just carry on doing what I’m doing at the moment, which is just basically not going the bunkers in the first place. So um that that that seems to be standing me in good stead. Yeah, it’s working, it’s definitely working. Uh, but yeah, thank you, gentlemen, for your um contributions today. Was that was that sincere or not? No, of course it fucking wasn’t sincere. Jesus Christ. We basically go on as he’s typing into Claude, tell me about the golf courses at Walton. Fuck’s sake. Uh anyway, on that bombshell. Next time on the Top 100 in 10 Golf Podcast, we’ll be previewing the open. And that’s the actual open, not the British Open or whatever people might want to call it. And that’s happening just up the road from us.