Wallasey Golf Club — The Course That Invented Stableford (And Saved Amateur Golf)

Why Wallasey

Nish 0:35

Every good story is about the journey. And this is the story of our journey trying to play the top 100 courses in the UK and Ireland in just 10 years. This is the top 100 in 10 golf podcast. I doubt whether any single man did more to increase the pleasure of the humble club golfer. The fact that the course necessitated a scoring system to make it easier for amateur golfers fills me with a little bit of fear, if I’m honest. So plaques all over the place celebrating history. That for me is like winner winner chicken dinner. Yeah. So Wallasey has the original. Augusta has the replica and the copy. Episode 69, the Wallasey Golf Club preview. So hands up, how many of you have ever played a Stableford comp? I’m guessing it’s going to be every single one of you. Every Saturday morning roll-up, every Society Day, every works golf do. Now, how many of you of you knew where Stableford was actually invented? Well, this week. Yeah, I knew that, but Well, only since yesterday. I presume people didn’t, but yeah, we know now. But this week we are actually going to be playing golf from the exact spot where a bloke got so fed up of tearing up his scorecard that he decided he was gonna make a system of scoring in golf that actually saved golf for the rest of us mere mortals. Now there is a guy called Henry Longhurst who said this about Dr. Frank Stableford. He said, I doubt whether any single man did more to increase the pleasure of the humble club golfer. Now we’ll get to that shortly, but before we carry on, could I ask you out there, whether you’re listening or watching this episode, please follow or subscribe this Ininverted Commas great podcast. Uh the numbers are growing like mind-blowingly, and it does enable us to get better and better content out to you. So please do that for a microsecond of your time. That’d be great. Now back to the episode. Can I just try to rewind and go back?

Jim 2:46

Yeah, just rewind. Is that because I’ve not been on for four months?

Nish 2:49

Yeah, the ratings are through the roof at the minute, Jim. Yeah. Uh well, sorry, this episode will and episode 69 as well. Of all the episodes to come back on, Jim. Pon. I’ve missed this. Oh god. Episode 69, Jim’s back. Um, anyway, let’s get to our preview of Wallasey Golf Club. So I’ll give you some background about how it’s come about, Jim, and a little bit about this course. So Wallasey is ranked 99 on our list. And it wasn’t in the original top 100, wasn’t it? Correct. It wasn’t in our original. It re came back into the list sort of early to mid-last year. And because this is our thing and rules don’t count apparently on our thing. We decided to shove our rule of uh list is locked in because this course is an hour away. So we’re like, right, let’s let’s get it back in. So we then re-amended our rule to say if a course that we’ve played gets knocked out, that’s when we’ll freeze it. So fingers crossed up to now that hasn’t happened. So we’re glad to bring Wallasey back in. Now, as a result, we or I contacted Wallasey and said, You’re in our top 100 list, this is what we’re doing. Can we arrange a tea time just in in general? And we have you know played 18 courses, and some courses to varying degrees of involvement have kind of got involved with the podcast, or would you be keen to do that? So a gentleman called Gareth, who I believe is a general manager of uh Wallasey, uh wrote me a lovely email back saying, brilliant, so glad to hear about this endeavor that you’re taking on. We would absolutely love to get involved. I’m not gonna do it. Somebody else is gonna, which I thought was brilliant, is a really good idea. So we’re actually getting an interview with a chap called John, who is the course manager. So he’s not like that’s a first. It is a first, and actually, we’re quite excited about that because it’s um you know, it’s it’s specifically gonna be able to have a good chat with him about the actual golf course. So that’s gonna be wonderful. So we’ve got an interview lined up with him before we go out and play. Uh so that’s gonna be great, and actually, the communication that we’ve had with everybody at Wallasey so far has been exemplary. Uh, so we expected that kind of you know, warm Merseyside, we’re all welcome, and that’s exactly what we got.

Founding history: Old Tom Morris, James Braid, Bobby Jones

Jim 5:27

Well, I’ve got a lot of family who’ve lived in Wallasey in the past. Have you? My grandmother was uh lived there for many, many years. Is that gonna be a good or bad thing when we go there? Well, she didn’t play golf.

Dr. Frank Stableford’s Eureka moment

Nish 5:38

Oh no, we’re okay, right? She wasn’t called McLaren was she? Like, can we say the name McLaren? We can say we could confidently say the McLaren name in uh in once when we’re alright. You can now. Yeah, maybe not previously. We’ll gloss over that, shall we? We won’t talk about the other part of the family. Oh, goodness me. I love stuff like that. We haven’t had to talk about this off air. The the the bad side of the family. We’ll we’ll we’ll forget about them. Um well look it, you know, that that’s how it all came about, and it we’re lucky because it is near us, so that was that’s always was great anyway. But it is on that, it’s described as the Golf Coast, the Golf, England’s Golf Coast, yeah. You know, Southport, all the way down to yeah, kind of Wallasey area, and and it’s just um it has this little parcel of land, and we’ve only just this last week played Hillside, uh, which was a wonderful experience. So to do two very close to each other, and again, they were really super friendly, so it’s obviously a thing, which is which is nice. So my brethren, we have yeah, and like it was well, you said how was it at Hillside? And I was like, lived up to all expectations. You’re like, Great, I’m glad that I’m glad that happened. So we’ve got high expectations from Wallasey. Now we have high expectations for Wallasey for a couple of reasons. Ranking would suggest you know you it’s just clawing its way in, whatever, but we’re talking some serious history at this place, like Stableford scoring system, which everybody’s used, was invented there, is incredible. The fact that the course necessitated a scoring system to make it easier for amateur golfers fills me with a little bit of fear, if I’m honest. However, let’s take it as it is and take it uh the way it was intended. So there is a little bit of what we’d call functional history. So that’s things like it’s founded in 1891, so it’s a really old golf club, you know, one of the original ones. Members from Royal Liverpool actually set Wallasey up. The story goes that either it was because Royal Liverpool Hoy lake was getting a bit too crowded, um, or because the businessman of Liverpool just wanted something that was a little bit easier and closer to sneak off for a few holes after work, sort of thing. So we don’t know, but it was a bit of a breakaway, and that really struck a chord with me because Chris is doing his whole breakaway round at Loch Loam, and so I thought he was supposed to be here today. Wow, I can stick the knife in as much as I want now, can’t I? You can indeed, yeah. So you know, he’s seen as he’s uh decided to break up. I thought, well, let’s bring that up. But um, so that’s that’s founding. Um, it was designed by old Tom Morris, he of Number who’s come up with a name who’s come up a few times and the original um St Andrews designer, all that kind of thing. Uh, and it’s obviously something then that the club are rightly proud of, and you know that that should be something that’s that’s that’s front and centre. James Braid has had his hands all over the design as well, and then Bobby Jones. So Bobby Jones is a good story about him. Um that when he won his grand slam, so he’s one of three golfers, four golfers, I think, to have done the grand slam. Someone’s gonna correct me here, I’m probably really wrong with that. But Bobby Jones, when he won it, he uh qualifying for the open, he had to qualify at uh Wallasey uh and Hoylake to then go and win the open at Hoylake sort of thing. So he did his qualifying that year at Wallasey. So um so that’s a little sort of claim to fame there. They’re the like the little the the general history bits, the bits that we over egg sometimes, but we can gloss over now. But there is this one massive bit of history though, isn’t there? Yeah, like you can’t ignore that. So shall I tell you what Frank Barney Gorton stableford what happened and how he came back there?

Jim 9:45

Yeah, I didn’t read much into that history of how it came about, actually. I just knew it happened at Wallasey.

Nish 9:50

Happened there, yeah. And uh there’s a picture of him on the website. He’s a very uh straight backed, mustachoid, older gentleman, you know, uh doctor. Um real doctor or PhD? I don’t actually know if he’s a real doctor. I think no, no, no, he was. No, no, no, no. He was actually a surgeon. So he was a surgeon during the war as well. So, you know, let’s not make light of his doctorate. Yeah, absolutely. But the story is so the winds of Will were making a mockery of the traditional scoring system at the time, which was called the bogey scoring system. So, what was happening with that was I still don’t actually quite understand what that whole scoring system was, and I’ve only just actually, to be fair, got my head round Stableford just recently, as we all figured it out. But um, let’s ignore that for a minute. But he was basically the issue was that after a couple of holes, people were so far down or so far beat up by the course, they were just like, What’s the point in going out and playing? So he went, actually, I’m gonna devise a system here that keeps everyone interested. So at most you lose a hole. That’s it. I think it might have been that it was the other way around. Sorry, he was like, If you have a disaster, it’s only that one hole that you have the blow up on. Death taxes and gym sniggers. Um, you only have a blow up on one hole. There you go. Um, so Stableford himself said I was practicing on the second fairway at Wallasey one day in the latter part of 1931, when the thought ran through my mind that many players in competitions got very little fun since they tore up their cards after playing only a few holes, and I wondered if anything could be done about it. So he designed the system so you can only lose that one hole and that’s it. You can still carry on and and and score points and and whatever. And like for me, bear in mind this system is now just universal. Everybody’s done it, everybody’s used it, some of us only just got to understand it, but you all know it. I mean, what wonderful, what a bit of history that is, and what claims to claim to fame that wasn’t.

Jim 12:04

It’s massive, it’s massive, it revolutionised the the game of golf.

Nish 12:08

Uh how much golfers and I mean I thought sort of thing like this guy, he’s this like war hero, surgeon guy, whatever, and he’s like he’s the but he’s the most relatable man in golf history because he’s he’s not gone, oh, I’m trying to make the game harder for people. I’m actually like he’s trying to stop us lot from having a shit round of golf. Like, that’s what he’s done, he’s just decided no, this needs to be fun for people, and like you shouldn’t want to be like lobbying your clubs in the sea on the beach or whatever because you’re so frustrated with it, and that every single event we run a charity day, golf day, we run society days, all that kind of thing. They all exist because of this one guy, like every level of golfer has a chance to score points competitively through the whole match, and you can take on the best in the world and beat them. Like the he’s an absolute hero. The man is an absolute hero, and you just sort of think like you know, uh there should almost should be more made about him. Like, I didn’t realise it could be a name or touchdown. I didn’t realise it was a guy though first. I just thought it was like there was a place called Stableford, and that’s where the system was developed, and and whatever. So uh absolutely eye-opening, but wonderful. Like, what a what a guy he is.

Jim 13:32

And has it changed over the last 90 years? The Stableford system, yeah.

Nish 13:39

I don’t think so. Has it remained exactly the same? It just remained exactly the same because I think it was just it was good enough, phenomenal. Like he just devised it so well at that time. I think there was a bit of a blip in the middle. I think they he tried one version and then he iterated it to another one, but let’s not go into that.

Jim 13:55

No, we don’t need to do that, but it hasn’t changed fundamentally or materially since not as far as I know the 30s, basically, 19th 1930s.

Reviews — and the oddball five-star wake review

Nish 14:02

It was that good then, but it’s not changed since. So, part of the way we want to do our previews now, and this is our second no third preview now. Um I missed the first two. You missed the first sorry, Jim. Well, are the are you sorry? I was asleep, it was a it was a heavy night. Now Chris isn’t here, it’s going so wonderfully well, isn’t it? On previews, but um we’re trying to do it a bit more structured so that we have a a set few things to discuss. One of those being reviews, which is your territory, Jim. Now we all know reviews obviously are subjective, and obviously with really good golf courses, you’re not really gonna look for the gold in the good reviews, are you? Oh, absolutely not. The real gold is in the one stars, the two stars, the the road is inaccessible, you know, all that kind of stuff. So over to you, Jim. What have you found?

Jim 15:03

There were they were generally very, very positive. Lots and lots of five-star reviews. Um, there were no one star reviews, which is really disappointing because you just want some idiot to say something completely outlandish. Stupid, yeah. Um that gives us a bit of a laugh. Yeah. And unfortunately, there is great for Wallasey, by the way. It’s wonderful for Wallasey, but uh but shit for my section.

Nish 15:27

Your segment and and and shit for our podcast as well.

Jim 15:30

So we want something for we want to bring in a little bit of comedy every now and then. Of course we do, even though we’re not funny people, but uh no, but generally the uh the the comments were were were fantastic, you know, excellent course, outstanding club. A lot of praise for the welcome and for the staff.

Nish 15:46

Yeah, okay.

Jim 15:47

That’s good, that bodes well. It’s Merseyside, so you would expect nothing less. Yeah, nice warm scouse welcome. Part from S&A, but we won’t go on about that.

Nish 15:55

Yeah, I mean it it’s in interestingly to bring that up. It was a long time ago, but as we were on Hillside, it obviously neighbours S&A and this split by the railway line, and we could look over and and see, and we could see the famous Gumbly’s signature hole, which we weren’t massively keen on, kind of thing. And the when we spotted that, we you know you’re in your own little world when you’re playing, and then then the the train goes by, and like I’ve got camera out, and I’m like, Oh, Chris, shit, look, that’s S&A. As if it was a big surprise, like, oh my god, it’s only there. Like, we knew that, but you didn’t know where you were on the course. And uh, the first thing we both said to each other went, Oh, do you remember that guy that guy in the photoshop? We’re like, it sticks, it does, it really does. Um, but anyway, sorry, yeah.

Jim 16:42

No, no, so everything seems to be overwhelmingly positive, you know. One of the best course you’ve never heard of.

Nish 16:48

Interesting, right?

Jim 16:50

Um, most avid golfers come to Liverpool area to play the three open venues here. Need to do some work in his spelling, but um, but there are other hidden gems of which Wallasey is definitely one. It has a great history, starting with the original design by old Tom Morris, and um talking about Bobby Jones as well. Um, who played a qualifying round here and became an ardent fane. Ardent fane fan, I think that meant amazing, amazing, outstanding, excellent course, outstanding club, must-play course. Um had the pleasure of playing this course recently. It’s majestic. Great views over the Mersey and a great course with immaculate fairways and greens, and that kind of is very consistent across a lot of the messages that you do see see on the reviews.

Nish 17:35

Umestic’s not a word you hear that often, is it? I’m suddenly start using that. That’s a good word. It is a good word. Majestic. Majestic.

Jim 17:42

Yeah, associate majestic and wine, but you know. Yes, true. It’s just really the only thing that was even.

Nish 17:49

I have had a bit of a preview of this review, so you’re right to the only thing that you know that that said I’m not a golfer.

Jim 17:58

And it wasn’t meant in that tone at all. I just want to be comedian. I went here yesterday for a funeral awake sad occasion, but I just wanted to say that the buffet was really superb, and that particularly the friendly, speedy, and first class attention paid to me by the chef. Stu. I mentioned to him that I had a wheat allergy and it immediately said that you would put together a gluten-free sandwich for me. In no time at all, I was served the best plate of ham and chicken toasty plus drizzled side salad that I’ve ever had. Wonderful. This sympathetic catering for someone with an allergy is sadly very unusual and definitely deserves noting. I hope someone at the club passes it on to him with due praise. Signed Nish.

Nish 18:38

My ears pricked up with wheat allergies straight away.

Jim 18:42

Amazing. Um, well, look it’s nice that people review things that other than just the golf and the golf course, though, isn’t it?

Nish 18:50

Yes. I mean, you know, you’re reviewing a top round golf course. I’m scraping the bottom of the barrel there, but it’s funny, isn’t it? Yeah. Well, look, if there’s nothing else you take away from this preview, and that is have your wake at Wallasey. There’s a bit of alliteration there. A wonderful wake at Wallasey. There we go. Uh I should be in marketing. I think that’s what I should do. Right. Pretty much worse. Let’s move on quickly. Right. So we’re saying all the reviews are good, which is which is great. I mean, obviously, we should be very happy about that. Oh, no, absolutely.

Jim 19:27

Yeah, I know, I know. Um, oh, it’s too windy, you know, something like that. Yeah, you know, you’re overlooking Liverpool Bay, you’ve got views of the Irish Sea and the and Snowdonia. I can’t remember what the Welsh name is. Apologies for our listeners. Eryri.

Nish 19:45

It’s Eryri, isn’t it? Errory or something.

Jim 19:48

Eryri, so yeah, because Eryri’s snowdonia. Again, apologies for my pronunciation. Um, but I think it was for my pronunciation.

Nish 19:56

It’s Snowdonia for God’s sake.

Course setup: yardage, slope, plateau greens, holes to watch

Jim 19:58

I think uh I think you wore him for a for for a real treat there, actually. I mean, I uh looking at the website um and seeing the views. We just I mean it’s I’ve got it here. Um majestic.

unknown 20:10

Majestic.

Jim 20:10

That’s what it was. Um, no, it look, it look it looks absolutely stunning. Traditional True links course, I think you’re gonna get an amazing welcome, and hopefully it will be the true links experience in terms of the weather and everything else. Maybe I don’t know. I don’t know.

Nish 20:28

Weather watch again, eh? Weather watch again. Well, look, it’s it’s uh it and it’s these are the bits that Chris is probably gonna go through, but I’ll go through, I’ll I’ll channel my inner Chris here now. Um, so it’s a par 72 standard championship par. It’s from the the the championship tees, the tips as you’d call them, it’s 6,650 yards. So it’s not that long actually. Um, but I can imagine because of where it is and the terrain and things like that, the wind kicks up, that’s when your your distances start getting right royally messed up. Um of course he’s got a 136 slope rating, and I think it was out of 155 was the max rating. So I imagine our handicaps will go up two to three shots at least, I would have said. Um so again, that’s it’s not too tricky, I don’t think. That’s that’s the that’s the thing I’m taking away from from that. In terms of its layout, um, it’s got an outer loop and then an inner loop. So that’s a bit like Muirfield’s like that, apparently, where you’d play like around the perimeter of the course and then you do the inside bit, and then that’s when you end up back at the clubhouse. So um famed for its plateau greens. Now, plateau greens, I think we faced at West Lanx. Me and Chris weren’t massively fans of that because it was quite it penalised you quite a lot if you missed. Um, and if you just missed just a little bit, then you you know big runoff areas, all this kind of thing. So we don’t know. I’ve not seen the pictures because I think Chris would have done that. So I don’t think we’re talking maybe West Lanx levels where they were raised quite a lot, and you had these big runoff areas, but um a lot of elevated tees and classic that Southport area, you’re gonna have deep pot bunkers, all that kind of thing. Now, bunkers are just should minded me, so I should bring this up, but I’ve bring I would normally bring this up in the hillside review, and we were gonna do that today, but but we can’t now. But you must hear this information, Jim. I only I hadn’t hit a bunker. At hillside till hole 17 off my t-shirt, and that happened because I stood on 17 and I was like, I’ve not hit a bunker today. I just take take some confidence into the t shot. Hit it really, really well, and it just started drifting right a little bit. And I was like, Oh, that’s headed. That’s the air. I mean, it’s on a line with him, but that’s gonna drop short. My distance is no, I wasn’t driving it particularly long. No, I creamed one, didn’t I? And it just kept going. I was like, oh great. So I ended up in that bunker. Got out first time, which was patting my own back. Um, then I hit my teeth.

Jim 23:09

I’m sure the uh the group behind were obviously uh pleased as well.

Nish 23:13

They would have known, wouldn’t they? Oh no, not I’ve seen him at Carnoustie, and then get get up on uh 18, and I’m like, same thing, like fine, bunker’s out of the way, like let’s just let’s just give it a go. Same thing, hit it really well, starts drifting. I’m like, oh, I think that’s going in the bunker, isn’t it? And then weirdly, I like lost sight of it just in the last sort of five, ten yards, just to take Chris sniggering next to me, just going, Yeah, you’re in the bunker, mate. I was like, oh, okay, great. Get out of that first time, but my shot went straight into the bunker that was behind behind the one that was in already. So I was like, oh great. So I didn’t hit a bunker for 17 holes and I’ve hit three now in two holes, but got out of all of them first time. So there’s some progress there, mate. It wasn’t gonna wreck my uh wreck my day. Uh and then this is the interesting bit that we mentioned old Tom Morris, designer. Uh there are four of his original greens that are still in existence and still in use. So that is on the second. The second hole is actually famous for the other reason, and that’s where Dr. Frank had his Eureka moment. We must have had a really bad first hole. It must have been a really bad first hole. Oh, yeah, that’s it. Oh god, yeah. Um the seventh, the eighth, and the twelfth. They’re the original Tom Morris Greens, and they they survived. So that’ll be quite nice, and we’ll make a little bit of probably a feature of of that as we play. Um, and then I’m gonna say this because I know how you’re gonna holes to watch are gonna be the second, obviously, famous. There’s a plaque on the second, it should be on the T. On a bench, and I think actually I hear, and I’ll maybe jump into a couple of other things, but I hear there are a few other plaques around as well, like for Bobby Jones and things like that. I love that sort of stuff because like you feel like you’re in a historic place, then don’t you? You know, um the fourth apparently is a wonderful, wonderful uh elevated tee, so you’re getting good 360-degree panoramic views. You’ve then got uh the 12th, which is described as having more sand than putting surface, and it’s only 150 yards from the championship tee, it’s a par three, so that’s gonna be an interesting hole to play on. It’s an interesting one for Chris’s par um challenge. Uh, and then we’ve got 17 and 18 are described as exceptional finishing holes with the 18th. You finish with the clubhouse, it’s just a matter of a few steps away from the 18th green. Goodness gracious, yeah. Watch out, people incomings.

Jim 25:57

So, what time of the day are you playing?

Nish 25:59

We are, I think we’re teen off at like 11 or something like that. So, hopefully, they’re not gonna be too many people having lunch. That’s the that’s the time when it’s probably gonna be really crowded, but you might have a few people, I don’t think we’re playing on a Tuesday as well. So I’m keeping fingers crossed our gallery is gonna be greatly reduced. But then it’s depends how how many is a Friday by. No, it’s a Tuesday. Oh, yeah, don’t be no one there.

Jim 26:26

No one makes a limb called though. Fuck for that.

Hunting the signature hole (and AI failing badly)

Nish 26:33

Oh great. But yeah, and but that that um 18th is Bernard Darwin, one of our mates as well from the podcast. He is uh he is somebody who again described that 18th, so I think they’ve kept that as it as it has been and should be. Now, at this point, I’m gonna bring Jim back in for out from the cold for the signature hole challenge, which was tricky to work out because AI was not helping.

Jim 27:07

And I’ve just put it in again, and it’s gone back to what it said when I looked at it yesterday. Um but again, we were chatting about this only 30 minutes ago, and when I re put the uh the search in, it said um something completely different. So there is a glitch in the matrix, people. So I mean I I’m sure we can appreciate that with all the crazy stuff going on in the world. Um, hang on a minute.

Nish 27:39

I’m not getting political. We’re not blaming DJT for AI. Yeah, I am, I’ll do that, no problem. Yeah, yeah. Blowed up a server somewhere or something like that.

Jim 27:50

Possibly, possibly, yeah. Maybe it’s all in Diego and Gossip.

Nish 27:55

There is a wider point here, and probably you can give us more info on this, but it’s been a bit of a struggle finding these signature holes, hasn’t it?

Jim 28:06

It has more recently, you know, you don’t expect it to just pop up um when you put the search when you put it in the search engine, but uh but um and I think it might be down to the clubs, they don’t necessarily want to have a signature hole because they think all 18 are great. I don’t know. I don’t know, yeah. Maybe um, but I think you know, particularly with a course like Wallasey, which is relatively up and coming, I suppose, in many ways, it’s only recently come into the top 100. They’ve done a lot of work to it to kind of bring it up to standards, it’s now on people’s radars. Then, you know, it’s more I think the golfers who make the decision as to what the signature holes are, yeah. Okay, rather than the club themselves.

Nish 28:43

Yeah, it’s interesting that, isn’t it? We’ve had a couple of places where we’ve asked what the signature hole is, and yeah, they’ll go, Oh, many, many people would say. And I I I I think I don’t know. I mean, we I think thinking back to this, which is going back two years and almost, and and I can’t remember what happened two days ago, let alone two years ago. But I think this all started off because we played Moortown, didn’t we? And Moortown were like it was in your face, Gibraltar, Gibraltar, yeah.

Jim 29:11

That’s one that would sticks out in the memory, doesn’t it?

Nish 29:13

And S&A were as well, Gumbly’s that’s our signature hole. Because we played those two so close together, and that was a thing, we’re like, oh, let’s make this a thing. Like, well, I’ll say we Chris decided after he was already three up, classic. Absolutely pasted him at Hillside, by the way. You’re gonna enjoy watching that video. Um, but it was over over before we left the tea. That was so good, so satisfying. He was like, Oh, shitty’s not here. Do you want me to bother filming the rest of it? I was like, absolutely, you’re fucking filming the rest of it, mate. That’s your punishment for getting pasted on this one. But um, and then since then it has been a bit of a tricky, what’s the signature like, but yeah, okay. So what are we what are we?

Jim 29:56

Well, I’d say go back to we’ll go back to we’ll we’ll come back to that in a second, but just on on what what AI said 30 minutes ago or so. I said, one of the one of the greatest holes in this course is hole one, a notable place to start. You’re always gonna start at the first hole, aren’t you?

Nish 30:14

It doesn’t start at hole number one, like it’s just a stupid point, isn’t it?

Jim 30:19

Yeah, so please, people out there just don’t fucking trust.

Nish 30:25

We had this in one of our episodes, one of our preview episodes recently, and it was the hillside preview, that was it. So you do your your initial research, you know, you can use AI well and you can use it unwisely, and using it well is just let’s just you know, gist allow the information. Yes. Oh, it was it was the yeah. How have you got that so wrong? But but it but genuinely, for a second, I was like, why have they not put it on their website if they got the oh hang on a minute, don’t trust chat GPT, that kind of thing.

Jim 30:59

So it’s like not necessarily, it still needs a lot of work, people. So uh there are other AI uh agents, but uh there are there are there are indeed, but they’re all getting the information from the same places, so it depends what it throws up. Won’t go into AIM advice, but just be careful, it’s not exactly accurate.

Nish 31:15

Careful out there, folks, it’s a dangerous world.

Jim 31:17

Dangerous world.

Nish 31:18

But we yeah, we we’ve not been given a definitive signature hole.

Jim 31:24

No, no, well I think the answer is.

Nish 31:25

We kind of have now, actually.

Jim 31:26

This this has come back. I’ve just I’ve just re- you know, re-entered the search, and uh the signature hole at Wallasey Gotfor is widely considered to be hole 10, a challenging par four that features a dramatic approach over a deep valley and a well-protected green.

Nish 31:41

That sounds about right then, doesn’t it? Yeah, yeah, I think so.

Jim 31:44

It’s renowned for its strategic layout and scenic views with recent improvements to the area left of the green. Um, and I don’t know, I think it’s an elevated T as well.

Nish 31:52

But if you go on other website, if we ask the pro and or the course manager and he changes that, are we allowed to change it on the challenge gym?

Jim 31:58

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Um I’ll be interested to get what his answer is. Well, then you’ve got there’s this find golf website, and it has signature holes, and it talks about a lot about the history, it’s quite informative actually. I’ve I find it very, very interesting. But then signature hole, hole four, par five, five hundred and twenty yards, hole sixteen, par three, 180 yards, hole 18, par four, 400 yards. So it it sounds like there are actually some really, you know, yeah. I think you’re in for a treat, as I said before, that you know that that that there are so many holes which you could view his signature.

Nish 32:36

Yeah, I was taking a mickey out of that, but actually that does bode well, doesn’t it?

Jim 32:39

It does, it does absolutely, and I think you know it’s just it’s just popped into the top 100, but it looks like it’s um, you know, it’s it’s of course it’s on the ascendancy, they’ve paid a lot of attention to it, they made a lot of changes to it recently, and it’s and it’s getting into people’s psyche, you know. They’re they’re thinking about right when we go to the northwest of England on England’s Golf Coast, right? Well, you know, there’s the three next to each other up at Up near Southport. You’ve got Hoylake Royal, Liverpool, um, and now you’ve got Wallasey.

Green fees vs. the neighbours — the value question

What actually makes a great golf day

The Bobby Jones portrait and the Augusta connection

Nish 33:09

So it’s um yeah, it’s I mean one thing I should probably bring up is is Hamster round costs. So probably gives you more of that perspective of where it’s at. So a weekday round costs £235. A weekend round costs £255. Okay. In March, that’s £140 for weekday, £160 for for weekend, which I think is great value. And in October, so the tug and shoulder seasons here in October you’ve got £180 for the weekend, 200 um £180 for the weekday, £210 for the weekend. So in the summertime, a weekend round is £255. Uh well, let’s average it out at £240, £245. When you compare that to what’s around it, so Hillside is $300 in the summer. Birkdale is mid 300, I think it’s like 360-ish, I think. SA, forgive me, but I think S&A is around about 300-ish. I think I’m not I’m not sure, it might be a bit less than that. So it’s there, isn’t it, in terms of green fee. Now we’re learning now that there’s decent manipulation of the green fee to change the perception of that golf course to essentially golf tourists. Yes. Um, so that’ll be interesting to find out now, like you know, where where are we? Because it is a new entrant. You know, if you’re an existing one, and I get I keep referencing Hillside, and I’m apologies to Wallasey for doing that, but because it’s the most recent round that we’ve had. Hillside is ranked 51, so it’s comfortably in the top 100, you know, it’s not leaving that anytime soon, it’s been in F for ages. So you’ve got a good barometer there to compare it against. Um, and it’ll be interesting to see now, because of what you said about the signature hole challenge and the difficulty in actually nailing down the signature hole. You know, does this place have the highlights then that actually that’s that number starts becoming really good value of 255 as opposed to a 300, 360, whatever it is, in the neighbouring courses? So yeah, we’ll keep our eyes peeled for that and just sort of see. And that’s hopefully that’s what this review and preview is gonna provide, really. Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, sort of put I can’t say putting it on the map, that makes us sound like we’re uh discovering all these golf courses. But um now um a few things that the reason I brought up the green fee is then that’s that leads me into the kind of the experience of the day. And there’s all the you can go to other part, don’t, but you can go to other podcasts and you can go to the websites and things to get your full technical course reviews and let’s nerd out on the frescu grass and all this sort of stuff. Like, that’s not us mostly, right? So for us, it’s I’m playing one round this year at a top 100. We’ll take our society as an example, and me and Chris are talking about this on the way back from from our recent round, and we were like, the guys who are coming with us, we’ve got 20 people playing with us on our at Burnham and Barrow, and we’re doing so much to make sure the day is really good for them and the weekend is really good for them, and is value added and whatever, because we know from speaking to the guys that they’re only playing one top 100 course this year, which is with us, and actually the experience does matter. If you’re spending multiple hundreds of pounds, it’s it’s it’s hugely important because you aren’t we aren’t at the level where we’re gonna nerd out on my goodness, like all the sight lines. Oh, isn’t the routing really good? And all the you know, it’s like what the fuck are you talking about? You know, it’s well once you’ve met the course manager at Wellis, you know, we all know a lot more. This is it, but so so here’s the stuff I’ve picked out about this experience, Jim. Like give you an idea about my my psyche. So plaques all over the place celebrating history. That for me is like winner winner chicken dinner. Yeah, um, there are some lovely old wooden lockers in the clubhouse, and again, I love that. Like, I went to a really old traditional school that had all these like honors boards and whatever. Like, I love all of that sort of stuff. It’s a bit of nostalgia for me. You get in, you can you know, smell all the history and other things in the club. The weed and I was talking about pipe smoke, but um, yeah. Um now the clubhouse was refurbished in 2020, so it’s got an extended balcony, which makes that 18th hole is gonna be tricky, but hopefully it’s Tuesday, and you’re right, they might it might not be busy, but it might be who knows. But it’s kind of like they’ve they’ve obviously then celebrating the history of of the club and its celebrated history in the clubhouse, you know, quite visibly. Um they have a starter on the first tee who gives you a little bit of a history lesson about stable food before you hit your first Tee shot, which is amazing. And we had that a bit at Cruden Bay, and while Chris hated the golf course, that whole bit that was before we even teed off was yeah, it felt really, really nice. And even at West Lanx, we played in the their open competition, they had a starter, and he just was brilliant. Like I used to get nervous about what they think about your golf, and I’ve just realized that they really don’t give a shit about your golf, they’re just so passionate about it. They love the club, they want to sell the club to you, that’s it, and the course, and once once that mindset changes, you just have a bit of a laugh with them, and you know, it’s all it’s all hunky-dory, and then there’s one bit of uh history that that is quite well celebrated in the club. Uh, and I’ll probably just read this as I’ve written it because I don’t want to do it justice, but um, there was a chap called Sir Ernest Royden, who was an ex-captain and of Wallasey, and he commissioned a portrait of Bobby Jones. Bobby Jones, rigor rider guy, is one of the best players of his generation, um, and that was by an artist called John A.A. Berrie. Um, now Jones, when he saw this portrait, was so delighted by it, he actually signed it himself. And while that doesn’t sound like a big deal now because people just pen their autograph on anything, um, it’s actually the only time he ever signed a portrait, which is crazy, and even more crazy of this is that he liked it that much, he then commissioned Berrie to paint a total replica, and that replica now hangs in the clubhouse at Augusta National, which is unbelievable. So, Wallasey has the original, Augusta has the replica and the copy. Like, that’s incredible.

Jim 39:53

Is the Augusta one signed? Well, I don’t know, that’s a good point.

The side bet that picks itself

Nish 39:56

I should I haven’t checked that actually. Is he the first one? Notwithstanding stableford, there is a thing there that really puts Wallasey on the golfing map, and people should be aware of stuff like this. So I thought that was like unbelievable. So naturally, I will be nerding out on all this sort of stuff, and I’ll have my camera out as as as as much as possible. But website, we’ve not really talked about that, but the website we both said was really good, didn’t we? Really enjoyed, really liked it, yeah. Yeah, enjoyable. You’re gonna say it was really enjoyable. You weren’t gonna say that, weren’t you? Thoroughly enjoyable. What website were you on? That was that was the next tab, wasn’t it? Um it it was, it was a really good website, and it’s not your stereotypical top 100 course website where they all look the same, same sections, whatever. Um, they’ve obviously had more of a hand in the design and the way they want it to put out, and and and it does really sell that history, I think, really well, but also it does come through the way it’s worded. Somebody’s obviously gone ahead and written all those words, and the way it’s all done, the friendliness does come out of there as well, which is difficult to put your finger on what’s done that, but you do get the feeling that it’s just a welcoming place to be. So we are looking forward to to that very much so. Uh now that doesn’t handily bring us on, but leaves us with one further thing to discuss, Jim. Is this would this be the side between? This would be the side bet that we haven’t done for a while, yeah. Because we didn’t have the opportunity last couple of last couple of uh previews, but we have the opportunity for a side bet, and I don’t know what that’s gonna be.

Jim 41:41

Well, I think, you know, given the history, because of what Dr. Frank Stableford did for um has done for golf and for amateur golf and recreational golf.

Nish 41:55

Absolutely.

Jim 41:56

That’s um there is a there’s well, the side bet is obvious, isn’t it?

Nish 41:59

Doing a stableford competition. Absolutely, yes. We’ve got to. We’re criminal. You couldn’t not to. Yeah, you couldn’t. Absolutely criminal. Well, look, you know, it was literally invented for me, Stableford, wasn’t it? To level the level the playing field with Chris.

Jim 42:13

I don’t think he’ll be too happy about it, but uh I can say like Dr.

Nish 42:16

Frank Stableford is my patron saint. Can I have that? Like, should I get like a locket with his imagery in it, you know? And that’s like I kiss it every time I go and play golf because I I beat Chris on Stableford at Hillside as well, so yeah. Oh mate, I could that that’s gonna be great. And actually, we’ll we’ll do it properly like that. We’ll obviously we’ll keep our we can have our individual scores in there anyway, but we will keep updating each other with like what how many points have we got, all that kind of thing. I think that’ll be really, really good to do. Um yeah, we’ll do it, we’ll do it legit. Because we always do the tot up at the end, and it’s only at the end that I go, oh, by the way, on net or stableford I’ve beaten you, you know that kind of thing. It’s it doesn’t build up any tension or anything like that. So we’ll get the wow, this is escalating, is this escaping the Loch Loman thing. Bloody hell, let it go, man. I can’t, mate. I can’t. First, first fuck him over. First chance he had, straight over.

unknown 43:09

Wow.

Nish 43:10

Um, yeah. Uh that was your fault anyway, really. It was really I gave him the round at Loch Lomond, yeah. Uh well, yeah, I’m regretting it now. How do I how do I get this offer rescinded? I hope the midges are out of force. Oh, it’s gonna be mid-central, isn’t it? In May, isn’t it? In May in Scotland, is that mid central? It could be, it could be by a lake, isn’t it though? So Loch Lomond, so that’ll serve him right, wouldn’t it? That’ll serve him right. You’d you’d forget the inset ring set repellent, I know what Chris is like. So it’s replacing the bag, yeah. What the we card insect attraction in mosquito pheromones. That’s the one. What is going on today? Absolutely everywhere. Um well, look, Jim, I think I I had like three pages of notes here, and I think we’ve actually covered it quite well with that, Chris. I don’t think we actually need him, do we? One page of notes. Exactly. Right. I made notes, such as apron pad, and everything as well. I I know, I know. Old school actual hand writing.

Jim 44:18

What’s yeah? I mean, it is scruffy, isn’t it, because I’m not used to it, but I could just about read it, even though I haven’t got my glasses.

Nish 44:25

Yeah, I can’t can’t live without autocorrect, unfortunately. That’s the thing. So um wonderful. I thought that was a great preview of what’s going to be a great round. History. Cracking golf course by all accounts, and just uh well, and an interview, which again with uh to to um to Gareth and and John, of course, who is going to be interviewed. We’re so grateful that you’ve uh you’ve agreed to do that because it does it really does make the review episode a lot better when we’ve got somebody from the club.

Jim 44:53

Yeah, a lot better.

Nish 44:55

A lot better, it makes it a hell of a lot better every time we’ve got some representatives.

Jim 44:59

No, it is, it is. It’s great that people are giving the time and and getting involved and helping.

Nish 45:03

Next time on the Top 100 in 10 Golf Podcast, we’ll be reviewing our first society day or weekend, I should say, of 2026, which is at Burnham and Berrow Golf Club. That’s gonna be an unbelievable episode because we’ve got a 20-man field, and uh already the group chat is just it’s like nuclear. Like everyone’s just going all in on everybody’s. It’s gonna be a great weekend of banter and hopefully some good golf as well. I know most of them it’s not gonna be good, banter. Oh we spied some shots there. Alright, well, yeah. Until next time.