The Cog Coach’s Mental Tools That Actually Lower Scores

–Nish: 0:00

Every good story is about the journey. And this is the story of our journey trying to play the top 100 golf courses in the UK and Ireland in just 10 years. This is the top 100 in 10 golf podcast.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 0:13

Having a good mental game is being able to stand over the ball to give you the best chance of hitting a good shot right there. Here’s a 30-yard fairway. You’ve got to hit that three times in a row. And he was at 28 handicapping. Within a year, he was down to 10.

Nish: 0:30

Bonus episode. It’s all in the mind with the cog coach. If you’ve ever stood over a short forefooter thinking, don’t miss this, or hit a bad shot, and then suddenly felt that the next three holes have disappeared into nowhere. Well, then this episode today is just for you. So during the off season, I love digging into all of the stuff that actually makes us better golfers. And today we’re talking about probably the most misunderstood part of the game. And that’s what’s going on between your ears. So I’m joined by the COG coach. He’s a cognitive performance golf coach who spends his time working with tour professionals, elite amateurs, and weekend golfers. And he’s all about trying to get them to play their best golf when it matters most. In this episode, we’re not doing vague mindset chat or just be confident nonsense. We’re getting into real situations on the golf course, real meltdowns and simple mental tools that you can actually use the next time you tee it up at a golf course. Because Andrew has a background in psychology and sport psychology, and he’s developed a unique coaching style that helps golfers to make the most of their practice time, build up confidence, and perform under pressure, which is something we’re all trying to do. So if you want to enjoy golf more and probably shoot better scores while you’re at it, stick with us. But before we carry on, could I ask you to click like or subscribe wherever you’re listening to or watching this podcast? It really helps us reach all of our metrics and targets that we want to to help grow the podcast together, and then we can bring you bigger and better content. So that’s our promise to you. We’ll carry on doing that. If you can just hit like or subscribe, it doesn’t cost you anything, takes two seconds of your time, but it will mean the world to us. Now back to this exciting episode. So welcome Andrew, aka the COG Coach. Uh now, before we get into the crazy mental side of golf, and it’s sometimes a rabbit hole kind of place. How did you end up becoming a cognitive performance coach?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 2:47

Yeah, it’s uh it’s an interesting story. So um played golf growing up, um, played all through kind of my teens. Uh as soon as I I played various other sports, and as soon as I got to golf, it was kind of like, yeah, if I look back, it’s like right, that’s the one, and all the other sports kind of went to the wayside in in no time at all, uh played golf, but then didn’t actually go straight into pursuing a career in golf. You know, considered maybe you know doing a PGA or something like that, but I didn’t do that until I actually ended up working um in London in the city in a in a corporate job. So completely, completely different to golf. Wow. Um there are some parallels in kind of what I do, which is interesting, but you know, it’s uh it’s it’s it wasn’t the first thing I did. So I did that until my kind of mid-twenties, and then just kind of threw a bit of a serendipitous meeting with uh he was actually the cousin of um a golfer at my local club, still know him very well. Um the guy that plays there, still plays there. And he came over, he’s a coach from from South Africa, and I’d been thinking about doing something different. I’ve been thinking about jacking in the corporate job and and kind of going into golfing. But you know, you have these thoughts and they’re kind of high in the sky, but you know, I was just chatting to him about it. He’s a he’s a very established coach. To this day, coaches guys on tour, fantastic, fantastic coach. Um, and he just said to me, he said, like, look, you know, you said what you’re kind of thinking about doing. If you ever want to come out to South Africa, just let me know, I’ll set it up. And and Dave, uh a friend of mine, he literally said, like, look, he he kind of means it, like as in, you know, he’s he kind of said sometimes when this is legit offering, like it can be a bit of a like, oh yeah, cool, yeah, well we’ll we’ll we’ll go out for dinner sometime, and then it kind of just leads into nothing. But he said, No, he means it, you know, take him up on it if you want to. And yeah, so me and me and a me and a friend of mine, we went out there for three months. So I quit quit my job, went out there, didn’t really have a massive plan and wasn’t really planning to go into the the mental coaching route, really, but went out there, practiced, played, shadowed uh Doug, the coach out there. Um, and then from there, kind of it went down the path of going towards uh towards where I am now.

Nish: 4:53

Amazing. I mean, that’s just unbelievable, really, when you think about it, that you’ve just kind of gone, yeah, actually, is this invitation legit? Like, am I I love that?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 5:03

It’s the first thing you think of, isn’t it? Yeah, and and do you know what? Like, I even look back at it and think, like, it’s a pretty big call to just go, yeah, do you know what? This kind of safe corporate job, kind of like a pathway in front of me, lots of structure, and yeah, I enjoyed the job as well. But yeah, and just go, yeah, this isn’t for me, I’m just gonna just gonna go try something else. But I genuinely at the time I remember thinking, like, look, if I try this for four or five years and it doesn’t work, I reckon I could get back to this exact moment now, and at least then I know I’ve scratched that itch and and I I’m back where I am. And thankfully, um, you know, 14 years later now, um I I haven’t needed to try and get back to that that exactly.

Nish: 5:46

Not look back, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, it’s that’s it’s basically like you’ve had a a great shot to nothing, haven’t you? There, what a what a wonderful feeling that is, like to be able to frame that in my in that way as well. Um I’m I’m getting into cognitive talk already about framing and stuff like that. Um I mean what so obviously your your slant is, and and this is why I follow you on Instagram, it is the mental side of the game, it’s the little things that you hear, and I read loads of your posts, and it’s just like, oh my god, that makes total sense. Why have I not thought of it that way? So, at what point did you go from I want to obviously you’ve got a background in sports psychology and psychology in general? So, when did you make that leap that actually, yeah, that’s something I want to focus on?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 6:36

Yeah, so so when I was out in South Africa, up until that point, I’d played a lot of you know competitive amateur golf and I’d focused on the mental side of the game, like for my own game, like you know, read Bob Roteller books, they’re they’re fantastic, I still recommend them to people all the time. Other things on on that front, and it had been really, really helpful. Like the difference for me from going from someone that could shoot a good score every now and again to somebody that could produce those scores in in bigger competitions, bigger tournaments, was the mental side of the game. So I started to embrace that it was something that that is super, super important and really worked for me. Like I really, really started digging into it, but just solely for my own game at that point, you know. I still was, like I say, corporate job nine to five, but you know, reading my Bob Rotella book on the train up to London type thing. It was it was something that that kind of helped. And I I got out to South Africa and I just genuinely thought there’s it’s where where this this academy is, there’s a lot of sunshine tour players there, still is to this day, and I just thought that you step up a few levels and the knowledge of this stuff would be really good, like it’d be just as in as it is with swing, like the importance of it is there, and you know, I end up getting you know become quite pally with some of the guys there that are playing at at kind of higher levels, and I was quite surprised that not that they didn’t disregard it, it wasn’t all that stuff’s a load of rubbish, it was just the knowledge of it just wasn’t that wide, it wasn’t particularly like widely known. So I just and this isn’t even even really in a coaching role. Like, I’m literally just walking around playing around the golf at this course, it’s called Serengeti Golf Club, playing around with you know these guys that are prepping for their tournaments and just sharing some of the stuff that that I kind of liked and and found that that helped me, and and a few of the guys like this stuff like it really helps, like it’s it’s really good, like it’s good, and I kind of that’s interesting. And then and over the three months that I was there, it just sort of this thing kind of it it made me realize, yeah, this is this is the thing that I like more than any other area. Yeah. And it just kind of it literally was like at that point, I was like, right, how do I go down the route of of you know qualifying to be to be a mental coach? And I I came back, looked into it, did a I’d already been to university, had a had a degree, but did a master’s degree in psychology, did another master’s degree in sports psychology straight afterwards, was a pretty busy 24 months, and then since then have have just been gradually building and building what I’m doing to now.

Nish: 8:59

So wow, so you knocked both of those masters out in a couple of years, and you’re like, right, I’m I’m good to go now. This is this is me.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 9:05

There was six days in between finishing one and starting the next one, so it was it was pretty brutal. It was pretty pretty straight. But I’ve actually just realized I didn’t I didn’t even answer your questions. You said about when did you you kind of realize it was it was kind of such a important like part Yeah, it was it was my your calling, basically. Yeah, yeah. And and you know what? I the way I I look at it with the with the mental side of the game, it it it’s it’s something that I realize not necessarily that it’s the most important thing above everything. It’s just that it’s as important as working on the golf swing, as important as as kind of practicing the golf swing, you know, working on the mental game and and and practicing the the mental side of things is is just so so important. That’s something I really realised out there and then as I kind of went on that journey.

Nish: 9:50

Yeah. Okay, well, well, I think we we people will throw these kind of phrases out there. And by people I don’t mean you, just in general, people talk about things like mindset, they talk about uh your mental conditioning, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I mean in in terms of and you know, I’ve I’ve led with an intro with you as well that you you’re not just talking about elite golfers here, you know, you you do and you work and you coach with you coach weekend golfers and casual social golfers like me. Um what like when you’re talking about that kind of cognitive approach, like what is it you mean by that?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 10:27

Yeah, it’s a great question. Um a big thing about the mental game, there is a lot of misunderstand there’s there’s a lot of things that are misunderstood about the mental game and you know what it is and what a good mental game is, you know, in its simplest form, the thing that I I really look at is having a good mental game is being able to stand over the ball for each shot with the best possible mindset with your brain in the best possible place for you to give you the best chance of hitting a good shot right there.

Nish: 10:58

Brilliant. I mean, that’s what everyone wants, don’t they? Stood over a ball, just going like I’ve got this.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 11:07

100%. And that’s where a lot of the misunderstandings kind of come in. People can think the mental game is just about being positive, the mental game is just about being calm, it’s about thinking happy thoughts, it’s about blocking out certain things. But actually, exactly what gets each golfer into that right mindset for them to hit a great shot is is different. There’s there’s definitely some keys, there’s definitely some things that are common across you know all great golfers, but you know, identifying exactly what it is that gets you into that spot, that’s that’s really, really key and a really key part of understanding about the mental game. You know, you can again look at the analogy of the golf swing. There’s no such thing as one great golf swing. There’s many different ways to swing the golf club. There’s there’s also many different, many different mindsets that work for different people on the golf course.

Nish: 11:55

Yeah, I mean, some people sort of thrive on competition and you know, just it’s mano a mano and all that kind of thing, and some people don’t, and some people just kind of I want to be relaxed and go into the happy place where it’s all you know, you sort of mention and it’s something.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 12:10

I almost think of it like a like a thermometer. Like you could imagine a thermometer going from like blue at the bottom and like red at the top, and you could almost plot tour players along that thermometer. You know, you’ve got guys that are and you can be you can be like low intensity in different ways. You can be super chilled, or you can just be kind of silent, and then you can be high intensity in in different ways. You know, you can be very outwardly emotional and you or you could be very kind of intense and very, very kind of like you know, fully focused at all times. You know, you could be a a high-intensity mindset player of somebody like John Rahm, very emotional, very expressive. You know, if you try to turn him into Freddie Couples, someone that probably sits a bit further down that that thermometer, it’s probably going to play worse golf. But then the same thing, you you turn a Freddie Couples or someone else that’s super calm, try and turn them into a John Rom, and they they kind of wouldn’t be able to do it. It just shows how there is all these real differences in in how people are built mentally for golf.

Nish: 13:09

So so how how are you, when you’re coaching somebody, how are you trying to draw that out and and understand that? Because obviously there’s a real collaboration there with the person that you’re coaching. It’s not just this is what I want you to do. Um you know, you need their input and feedback.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 13:26

100%. And a big thing at the start of working with somebody is is really spending time to to kind of get to know them, get to know how they like to play golf, you know, what’s the approach that that they like to take? You know, what are their tendencies? You know, are there tendencies to be almost push themselves to kind of burn out? Are there tendencies to maybe need to get a bit more of a certain type of practice in? Or are there are there tendencies to look to just want to play all the time and you need to kind of change things slightly? But yeah, getting to really know what that person’s tendencies are, how they like to play, it’s it’s such a big part of the start of that process. So then we can start to build kind of tools that help that person get to the spot that they that they need to be in.

Nish: 14:13

Do you ever find that people? I mean, look, okay, uh I I know people, I’ll I’ll give you to give you examples. I mean, that’s probably the best way to do it, and I think it’s probably the most relevant way for people sort of listening and and watching. But if I know people who will stand on a T and they’ll just go, like, oh, there’s water there. I always hit it in water. Now, as soon as I say that, everybody listening and watching probably is gonna go, oh yeah, well that’s obvious. You don’t think about the water, but actually But we do it, right? Yeah, and that’s that’s such a thing.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 14:49

And and you know, one of the bit another one of the misunderstandings in the mental game is is the kind of don’t think about X. You know, like these bits of advice you get given of like, oh yeah, just don’t think about the water, you know, just don’t think about you know the the pup might miss or you know whatever it might be. But you know, we’re we’re just not built like that. You know, the the brain is designed to to spot threats and then put you on high alert for those threats. It’s it’s kind of what’s got us um surviving for for so many years as a species to this point with you know all of these threats in our environment over the last thousands and thousands of years. So, you know, that that the way that our brain functions doesn’t just go away. Even though those the the true threats, the the saber-toothed tigers and you know the other kind of cliche kind of evolutionary threats aren’t necessarily there every day anymore, we’ve still got the same kind of makeup. So, you know, when the reason we think, don’t think about the water, or oh god, don’t hit it in the water, or there’s water there, it’s because our brain is essentially just kind of waving a big flag at us, trying to get us to to look at that and know that that threat is in is in the facility. Acknowledge it, acknowledge it, please. Exactly. And and the skill is being able to acknowledge it, but then being able to place our attention on something that is beneficial, and also be able to kind of just gradually reduce how intensely we’re feeling that is a threat. So being able to have a conversation with ourselves and say, yes, there is water there, that’s fine, that’s the reason I’m picking this target on the left side of the fairway, and I’ve got this club in my hand, so I’m gonna fully commit to this shot, and that’ll give me the best chance of not hitting it in that water. Like if we could say that to ourselves in that moment, we haven’t gone, don’t think about the war, don’t think about the war, don’t think about the water, but we’ve guided our mind towards a place that is far more beneficial and gonna help us hit hit good shots.

Nish: 16:42

Yeah, I and I think this is something I didn’t might have picked up on a story or something you posted at one point. I think I think you might have said something along the lines of like, you know, talk to your caddy almost and tell them what you’re gonna do, not what you’re not gonna do. Like you tell the caddy what the intention is because then they’re gonna pick a club for you accordingly, right? So 100% to yourself and do that. I have to say, I’ve started doing that. It’s amazing.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 17:07

It’s yeah, like use it like a an inner caddy is such a good way of going out. I’m not bothered about it. I’ll just like it. No, it’s funny you say that actually. So I was playing a I was playing a tournament once, and um I you know you get drawn with people that you don’t really know or whatever, and you kind of get to know them over the the kind of face exposure. It was kind of like a like a county scratch kind of open type thing a few years ago. And someone said to me like halfway through the second round, they just they said, you talk to yourself like before every shot. And I didn’t really realise it was out loud. Yeah. And I was like, Yeah, do you know what I actually do? And then you know, I just carried on. But it was, yeah, it it’s funny you say that because I do exactly the same.

Nish: 17:41

Yeah, I mean it’s it’s it’s it’s brilliant. I mean, the amount of times that I’ve I’ve now got I mean, I I will it’s the curse of somebody who’s on social media and whatever, but you’re always filming yourself playing golf and and whatever, so there’s always some eyes on you, right? And you you’re aware of that. But the amount of times now, and since I watched that, the amount of times now I do talk and I was like, this is what I want to do, and this is where I kind of want to land it, and things like that. And I’ll hit a good shot and I kind of turn around to camera and just go, You talked yourself into a good shot there, Nish. Well done, you know, that kind of thing. Um, but I mean, you know, just that was such a little like it was just a little switch that just turned in my head. I was like, Why the frig have I not been doing this before? Like it totally makes sense.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 18:25

And it is such a good proxy for good self-talk because whether we realise it or not, there’s this conversation going on in our mind all the time. It’s normally pretty mundane, you know, what we’re gonna have for dinner later or you know, whatever it is driving down the road, but there is that conversation, that that narrative kind of going through our mind, and and actually kind of first tuning in and listening to it, and then actually being able to have that conversation is a massive skill when it comes to to the mental game. And that proxy of talking to an inner caddy or a you know, a caddy that that an imaginary caddy is such, like that’s such a good proxy for for having that inner conversation, it’s guiding that internal conversation again towards things that are helping versus things that are maybe going to cause a bit of a bit of panic or or something to kind of worry about.

Nish: 19:09

Yeah. I mean, okay, so that that’s kind of a bit of an example about a pre-shot sort of thing. But I mean, the other side of that is that I have examples of people who will then stick it in the drink, and this kind of real aggressive, almost primeval reaction comes out, you know, the clubs are getting slammed into bags and all this sort of stuff is happening, you know, and and and I suppose we’ve all seen that you suddenly then just go into a downward spiral.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 19:43

So golf is a it’s a frustrating game, right? Of course it is, yeah. It’s a game that you know we if we if any of if all of us said we’d never been frustrated on a golf course, you know, we’d we’d be lying for sure it is, and and you are right, some people do uh respond in in different ways to others, slightly more um, but it’s that kind of out more outwardly emotional type thing. Again, isn’t it?

Nish: 20:00

Have you ever seen anybody when you’ve been coaching them? Because it people are going to be on best behavior with you, right? Because they don’t know you as well.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 20:07

Yeah. Um, so as in seeing people kind of have big kind of uh good, good, good meltdown, yeah. I mean, you know, as golfers, yeah, we’ve seen we’ve seen kind of plenty. Probably not whilst I’ve been, you know, coaching them. A lot, the the sessions that I do, they tend to, you know, we’ll we’ll be out on the golf course, we’re we’re talking through a lot of shots, we’re kind of creating situations, talking about the game and creating like scenarios to practice certain things in. So definitely not from people I’m I’m coaching. Yeah. Um so no, I def definitely not that during during sessions. You know, in in kind of casual golf, I’ve seen I’ve seen plenty of uh seen plenty of meltdowns from people because it it is, you know, it really is, it is, you know, the the frustration that comes with golf is a is a big part of it. We’ve just got again look look at the tours, you know, there’s examples of people, you know, getting really, really frustrated because you know the nature of the game is super difficult, it takes a long time, it’s something where it kind of builds and it builds and it builds and it builds. And yeah, these these moments, especially where, you know, towards the end of the round, if something kind of goes wrong or whatever it is, we we do get we do get frustrated. And and yeah, it it’s it’s it’s something where there’s definitely not many games out there that that provide that same you know combination of of kind of difficulty and time and you know opportunities to get seriously frustrated.

Nish: 21:28

Yeah, it’s it’s such an innocuous looking game sometimes, isn’t it? And it is a it is actually quite simple about getting a ball and a hold as quick as possible, sort of thing. But my goodness, but there’s so many little things get in your head, don’t they?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 21:41

And it’s just you know simple but not easy is probably the the way to I I think as well with anger too. Like anger’s an interesting one, you know. I think it’s easy to think that we need to get rid of all anger when it’s when it comes to playing golf. But actually, if we look at not even just golf, we look across all kinds of sports, like being you know, some some kind of high-intensity emotions uh are quite normal across a lot of sports, and there’s a lot of players that that play very well, you know, with that kind of intensity. And I think, you know, if we’re talking about this this kind of this this thermometer, you know, up into the sort of dark red part, like no one’s gonna be playing good golf in in that kind of sense. But you know, you look at someone like Tiger Woods or you look at someone like John Rahm, they’ve they play some seriously good golf when they’re that kind of hit between their teeth. And you know, it’s it’s a balance, you know. At the point you’re you know, throwing clubs around and things like that, it’s it’s gonna be very hard to keep your mind together. But you know, I think sometimes people can think that having a good mental game is getting yourself to be in this super calm, placid person, but actually that can take away a little bit of the fire. So, you know, it is a real balance with you know, if it’s the right mindset for a for a golfer, keeping that fire there, but you know, just containing containing it a bit so they can get to that next shot and still be ready to to hit that one.

Nish: 23:02

Yeah, yeah, no, I I totally see that. Yeah, there are fiery characters, aren’t there? We know Rory’s quite a fiery character, to be honest. You know, he does get angry and stuff like that, and and generally speaking, he channels it in the right way, doesn’t he? You know, he he’ll he’ll use that as fuel, I suppose. And you’ve got some very famous examples, people like Poulter, and you know, they’re just that adversity and that pushes them to the next level, you know, this superhuman performance kind of thing. So, yeah, there’s there’s definitely a space space for it, maybe not for me.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 23:32

That’s what comes back to the the knowing what the right kind of mindset is is for you, you know. Almost I I like to think of you know that thermometer if you placed it on like a kind of one to ten, ten being like you know, boiling over and and zero being you know, barely caring at all. It’s kind of like finding like where you are on that thermometer that that works best. You know, are you a four out of ten? Are you a five out of ten? You know, are you a six out of ten? Are you a seven out of ten? Just finding that that point and then learning how to get yourself to it.

Nish: 23:57

So uh well, one of the things you really talk about a lot is putting yourself and doing meaningful practice. Um we’re in the winter time right now, you know, and and a lot of people will be. I’m fortunate I’ve got a course that’s open, you know, year-round, and the greens are always good, and you can play off a fairways, but a lot of people will be playing off mats, they’ll but they’ll be going, actually, I’ve not bothered about doing that, so I’m gonna go to the range, all that kind of thing. And you do talk a lot about look, give yourself real meaningful practice here. It’s not just going and caning 100 balls down the range, and you get nothing out of that. So, could you give us kind of a bit of a almost a trim down what you would say would give you good meaningful practice from a range session? So you’re not just coming and you work some muscles and that’s it.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 24:41

Yeah, 100%. Um, yeah, practice is just such a big part of the mental game, and then also just just getting better at golf in general, you know. A big, a big where it falls in with the mental game is that rather than just practice being a time to go and work on our golf swing and hit a load of golf balls, it’s a time to actually prepare ourselves for being out on the golf course with a card in our pocket, pressures on, you know, playing again in a match play against somebody that you know, or you know, whatever it might be. One of these situations where there’s pressure and you’re like, I really want to play well today. Being able to handle when the shots matter is something that we can develop during our practice time. And there’s a lot of really, really, really good skill acquisition research that has been you know published over the last 30 or so years. And skill acquisition is essentially just how we get better at anything.

Speaker 1: 25:35

Right.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 25:35

And what that research shows is that the way we get better at anything, and whether that’s playing the guitar, chipping, football, chess, you know, whatever it is, it the way we do it is we consistently push ourselves out of our comfort zone and give ourselves new and gradually more difficult problems to solve. So if our practice is 107s at the 150 marker, that’s one problem a hundred times.

Speaker 1: 25:59

Yeah.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 26:00

So we’re not solving many problems. They’re not very new, they’re not getting any more difficult. It might feel nice, we might hit it lovely. Yes. At the end of that, we’re going to be flushing it, but that provides very little improvement that sticks around. We’ll see, you know, like we say, by the end of the session, it’s going quite well. But generally that’s all kind of disappeared by the time you next get to the course of the range, which we’ve, you know, we’ve all been there. We’ve all had that session we’re flushing it, every shot’s down dead straight at the 150, and then we get on the course of the course that I’m range, and yeah, you know, who’s here.

Nish: 26:30

So meaningful, selling my clubs, I’m getting new clubs, I’m getting a new fitting or whatever it is, you know. Yeah.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 26:35

Meaningful practice is is is essentially doing the opposite of that. It’s creating situations in our practice that look like being on the golf course. So different targets, different clubs, adding consequence to the shots that we hit, playing games that add pressure, playing games, you know, it could be as simple as here’s a 30-yard fairway, you’ve got to hit that three times in a row. If you miss, you start again. First shot isn’t going to feel too much of a pressurised shot. Second shot might build a little, and then by the time you stand over the third one, it’s like, right, I’ve got to hit the fairway to hit it, yeah. Just like being on the golf course and creates that bit of pressure. So you know, doing those things in our practice time starts to make our practice look like being out in the game.

Nish: 27:15

That’s brilliant, isn’t it? That’s so simple, but yeah, that third shot is the one, isn’t it? That’s like, can I deliver it now? You know? Yeah, fascinating. Do you do you feel there’s any um technology? I mean, driving ranges are sort of changing beyond belief at the minute because we’ve gone from like just a mat in a shed um out to a field with hardly any markers and flags every every now and you have to kind of guess how far it was, to big super duper, you know, you’ve got top range top golf ranges and all this kind of thing. Do I mean how how how does that fit into your sort of practice methodology?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 27:48

Really, really good. It’s it’s really good. So, like Top Trace is probably the most ubiquitous one. There’s obviously track man ranges as well now. They seem to be the ones you get in in most places, and to be honest, they’re great, you know. People will nitpick and say, oh, you know, it’s range balls, it’s not showing the exact right distance, which it doesn’t show the right distance exactly, but it’s giving us a good enough example. And what it is doing, it’s giving us feedback, it’s giving us consequence to shots. There’s games on there that you can play where you’ve got a hit to different greens, you can play virtual golf. The putting is actually like chipping to a 50-yard marker, which is just great practice in itself. You know, it really ticks all of the boxes, you know. Different targets, different clubs, adding a bit of consequence to the shots you’re hitting. You know, again, if you’re playing the top tracer games and playing some some virtual golf on there, then you are creating encore situations and and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone in practice and giving yourself new problems to solve. So it’s it’s fantastic. And I I’m a big, big fan of people doing that as much as possible, really.

Nish: 28:45

It probably helps with the visualization element as well, doesn’t it? You know, because otherwise you are just looking at a blank bit of field and you’ve got to try and see a hole and all that kind of stuff. But actually, you’ve got this screen that’s kind of giving you what what you should be looking at and and how you’re zoning in on your target. Yeah, it’s yeah, it’s it’s amazing, isn’t it? It’s like I say, it’s the the the way it’s all sort of changed now.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 29:07

Um very much so, and you get kind of personal launch monitors now as well. Like a lot of the guys that I coach will use you know the different the different personal launch monitors that give good good ball data. So even you know, in their net at home, they’re doing a lot of different drills that add consequence to their practice, playing a lot of games that add a bit of pressure. You know, they’re they’re able to, in a net in their garden, do some really, really, really high quality practice that’s that’s gonna lead to developing skill and and you know getting better at golf quickly.

Nish: 29:34

Yeah. I mean, so you you you’ve you’ve said the word quite a few times, and and and I think you know we probably can’t understate the impact of it, but it’s the word pressure. So you’ve added pr you’ve said pressure a lot, and I suppose that’s what you’re trying to arm people with, aren’t you? It’s like how are you gonna deal with that under a stressful situation? You’ve got yeah, a hole riding on it, a match riding on it, hopefully not thousands of pounds, but you know, with all that kind of thing riding on it, like how do you perform at your optimal? So if you were to sort of give somebody you know one thing that they could remember that will help them cope with a pressured situation and try and potentially deliver, what would that be?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 30:17

Yeah, 100%. So if if you’re picking one thing, it’s it’s gonna be having a really strong, repeatable pre-shot routine. So being able to pick a really clear target, visualizing each shot, thinking about exactly how you want it to fly, and then committing to to each shot. If you can do those three things, you’re gonna give yourself the best chance of hitting a good shot in a pressure situation. This links in really well with the practice because the more you create those situations in practice, you can practice using that pre-shot routine, which means when you use it on the course, it’s that much more functional. But if you can go out there with the goal of completing your pre-shot routine for every single shot. So let’s say you’ve got a club championship or you’ve got a big match for your club, or even you know, you’re playing against a friend and you really want to beat him. And if you go out there and say, right, my goal today is to fully commit to every single shot, to pick a really specific target, to visualize it, and say to yourself, if I can walk off the golf course and be really happy that I did that as often as possible, you can be happy that you walked off shooting the best score you possibly could. And what that does is it takes the focus away from all this round really matters. Oh, I’m doing all right here. I’m on this many points, or I’m this many up, or on you know, this many shots under or over par at this point, takes it away from all of that stuff, which just adds a bit of pressure and takes our focus off the shot in front of us and brings us back into the into the present and gets us focusing on just the thing that we can control, which is the shot right right in front.

Nish: 31:54

We’re quite unlucky that we play a quite a data and numbers-driven game, don’t we? So you are writing down scores all the time and whatever. So uh I I mean, you know, you can’t ignore in human natures, you want to find out where you where you’re going to and how you’ve done and all that kind of thing. So, I mean, you know, sometimes you can’t fight that, can you? You can you can be quite deliberate. I’ve I’ve I’ve play with a Garmin watch. So the thing that annoys me is that at hole nine when you finish, and and I’ll just enter the score and it’s like carry on, move on, I’ll do everything later on, is that at nine it’ll give you the what your out score was, and you’re like, you know, it’s it’s one of two ways, isn’t it? You’re either happy or you’re not, yeah. Um and you know, sometimes it has happened, you’re like, you’re happy. Oh great, I’m on for a good round here, and then yeah, next four or five holes just all take takes ages to kind of get yourself back up. Um, but is is there aside from just look, don’t focus on the numbers? Like the reality is people are going to, aren’t they? Like, can they can they break it down another way?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 32:59

What you said there is exactly right. We we can’t really fight it. Like, as in we we they are there, we’re writing them on a bit of paper or putting them in our phone, or your mate goes, Oh, you’re on a great score here, mate. Oh, you’re only you’re only too overpowered or you know, whatever it might be on a certain hole. Like, we can’t control any of that stuff.

Nish: 33:13

So do you do you want to know what score you’re on, mate?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 33:15

Is that uh um the way you said that, I think I did exactly, and and really what we need to do is be able to know what score we’re on on some level and be able to shift our mind onto something else. So kind of it comes back to that narrative again, you know, the way we’re talking to ourselves. If it’s oh my god, I’m too overpowered with three to play, don’t mess it up, don’t mess it up, don’t mess it up, you know, there’s gonna be no free shot routine there, there’s gonna be no visualization, there’s gonna be no commitment, we’re gonna be tight and scared, we’re gonna be like, you know, white knuckling it all the way back into the clubhouse. Whereas instead of saying don’t mess it up, don’t mess it up, don’t mess it up, if we say, right, too overpower with three to play, that’s fine. I’m gonna pick a really clear target, I’m gonna visualize, I’m gonna commit to the shot all the way to the clubhouse. And as long as I do that, I’ll finish on the best score I possibly could today. It’s just such a different conversation to have with ourselves. So if we can revert ourselves back to that that routine, then we don’t have to hide from the score. We don’t have to kind of you know try and shift something out of our brain and and really fight it, and we can we can keep our mind where we where we want it to be.

Nish: 34:22

Yeah, it’s it’s I’ll tell you what, it’s fascinating, and it it was. I definitely recall it now. I picked it up from a post that you put on about talking to your caddy kind of thing. And you know, that that just stands me in such good stead. You know, I’m we’re we’re playing, bring it back to what we do, and we’re trying to play some of the best courses in the country. And I’ve got a 17 and a half candy cap, right? I’m I’m not uh I’m a I’m a I can get around a golf course basically. So almost for my level of golf, distance I hit it, all that kind of thing, almost every bit of danger somebody’s putting on these amazing courses is designed to catch me out because I can’t fly it or whatever. Um, but it is amazing how many times that attempting to reframe, and like you’re gonna have a bad hole, of course, but it’s you know, we’re lucky because we’re playing such nice courses. You just go, all right, that was a seven or an eight or whatever, but wow, look at that view from that T, you know, that kind of thing. And it is just it really changed the way I looked at at my golf. Like it wasn’t, you know, I was I was getting obsessed with the numbers. I don’t know, Chris, my playing partner, he’s he was like that when he was younger as well, like he was obsessed with the numbers, and he said himself he gave up golf for such a long time because he’s like, I wasn’t enjoying it anymore. And like we just go out and we just go, it kind of doesn’t matter what we’re shooting, we just want to play and walk in some famous footsteps and all that. We what a great game. We can do that. We’re able to do it. We can walk on a course that some great players have played on.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 35:53

100%, no, 100%. I’m I’m really glad to hear that the the the kind of inner caddy stuff has has helped. It’s it’s really good. And yeah, you’re right, those those those elite courses, those top 100 courses, they’re they’re designed to catch you out, aren’t they? There’s there’s not you know, if if you’re not quite on, they they do beat you up, and that’s a at kind of all levels, that’s where where they’re designed in such good ways. There’s so much more to think about, and actually, you know, it means that our targets have to be so much more precise. We actually need to think a lot about the strategy that we’re using. You know, do I want to lay up to that bunker? Do I want to try and knock it past it? Do I want to play to this side of the green, that side of the green? It’s all super important, all these decisions that we need to make, things we need to think about on there are so important, particularly so on these elite elite golf courses.

Nish: 36:35

Yeah, they’re definitely put stuff to mess with your mind, I think, a little bit there and and and getting that. It take it it took me a good five or six courses to kind of figure it out and go, what are they trying to do here? Like what were they really trying to just yeah, mess with your equilibrium? I think a little bit. Have they have the I mean, so what what um in your career, I mean you’ve been down to South Africa, but in your career, you must have played some pretty pretty good courses. Is there is there an absolute sort of favourite, maybe UK one that our listeners might be more familiar with that’s that’s your favourite up there?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 37:06

Yeah, um I’d say UK standout course for me is probably Royal Dornuk, I’d say. I’d say that’s the best one I’ve played. I’ve played it a couple of times now, and it’s it’s amazing. Um that’s right up there.

Nish: 37:23

That’s like I think that’s like in third or fourth position on our list or something.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 37:26

Yeah, it’s really high up, yeah. And it’s again, you said about views, like you know, there’s a in golf course architecture stuff, but people talk about the reveals, don’t they? As you kind of walk around a corner and it kind of you know opens up into this like big expanse. It it has kind of that about the place, and you know, and you sort of read about like the history of how you know the the roots of Pinehurst are basically from you know, somebody that was from Dornock, and then the kind of you see the runoffs and stuff, yeah. And you know, the par threes and a few of the par fours and stuff have got very Pinehursty sort of runoffs and stuff that the Donald Ross then obviously went over to um to uh to Pinehurst and and uh and sort of took with him.

Nish: 38:05

That’s amazing. What about um a world one?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 38:09

Yeah, that’s uh so I played CPC Sawgrass, which is an amazing golf course. Great, amazing, amazing golf course.

Nish: 38:17

I think the second person that’s done that has two there’s two episodes in a row, actually. We we just we just this week released one with um uh Toby, who’s uh Welsh number one, and he was like sawgrass.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 38:28

It was just I was do you know what I always I I knew the last three holes would be great, I didn’t realise it was going to be 18 great holes, and I think tied with it, I’d say tied with it. I played I played Beth Page Black. Oh wow uh about 18 months ago, and I played it off the back tees as well, which was cool. Um, so really put myself up for uh a brutal test, and yeah, that that’s an amazing golf course too. Like yeah, it’s you know the the thickness of the raft, the firmness of the greens, you know, that there’s almost like sneaky kind of runoffs at the back of greens, so you’re kind of having to hit mid to long irons up your nose to try and land it on the front of the green with this massive, you know, hollow bounce to then try and stop it by the back of it, and then you know, it’s a public golf course. You literally just go in and you know pay at a window as if you’re going into a into a park somewhere, and and then it’s just this amazing, amazing golf course. So, yeah, hard to split those two.

Nish: 39:24

How did you how did you do? Because I mean that’s it would be they would have been building up to getting it ready for Ryder Cup and Yeah, they would they were filming stuff when I was there actually.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 39:33

They were kind of doing like the flags and stuff were up, and they were kind of going around filming some like some kind of promo type of things. Um I shot eight over. And I played good, to be honest. I played really good. Yeah, like so um off the back tees, that’s off the back tees, yeah. So this the kind of the course rating’s like 79.3, and I think I shot 80 um off the back tees. So yeah, and I I Played really nicely, like we we had to sort of leg it around the last few holes because we you know getting a tea time there is is obviously hard, and it’s kind of the way I managed it was kind of just someone had basically told me that if you keep checking the system, people will will cancel like within 24 hours because you can cancel for free. So um, and I was doing that when I was out there, and it was like, okay, I’ve got a tea tub at this time, and was kind of jumping around and stuff, and ended up yeah, managing to get one for the following day. So the last few holes we were kind of legging it round, but but yeah, it was uh yeah, it was in the way.

Nish: 40:30

I mean, we’ve all done it, haven’t we? We’re all like chasing daylight at the end and you can’t see, like you hit the ball and you take a picture and you’re like, Oh, the pictures come out quite light, but actually in real life it was really dark. Couldn’t see you just don’t expect that at Beth Page Black Deal. It’s hard enough as it is, that golf course. Yeah, amazing. Oh, what an experience that is. What an experience.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 40:48

It was very cool, very, very, very cool.

Nish: 40:50

Yeah, you’re not gonna um ever forget that, I think, are you?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 40:55

Definitely, definitely amazing.

Nish: 40:56

Um, have you you’re talking, we talk about your your students. Uh I mean what do you refer to them as your students, yeah, students would be a good word. So you refer to the sort of the mental challenges they’re facing, but you know, what have you faced in your coaching career that you sort of think, actually, I I had used what I know, and I use that well.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 41:19

Yeah, that’s an interesting thought there. It’s an interesting thought. Um, so I think a big thing from coaching is it’s almost like knowing when to talk and knowing when not to talk, and knowing what that person needs in that moment to help them to get closer to the outcome that they’re trying to get to. So I always think of it with coaching, it’s like it’s kind of less about what’s coming out of my mouth and more about what’s going on in that person’s head. So it’s kind of like you don’t want to interrupt a client who’s clearly like problem solving something, but at the same time, you can then judge, okay, maybe the maybe there’s a bit of problem solving we could do here as like a coaching part. So it’s kind of like judging, you know, when to when to talk about certain things or when to when to bring up certain things and how to prep for for certain stuff. So kind of judging exactly knowing what to say, how to say it, and why you’re saying it is kind of that that thing that to be honest, I think it’s just a a thing about, you know, if you can do that well, you’ll you’ll and you know your stuff, obviously. You know, you need to know what you’re talking about. But if you can do that well, you you you that’s a key part of being uh being a being a successful coach, really.

Nish: 42:33

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it’s it’s the getting the ratio right between listening and and talking and and yeah, that’s I can only come with experience, and you’ve got 14 years of it, Andrew. So I think you’re uh you’re doing very well at it. Um so um I’m gonna chuck a couple of rapid fire questions at you. And I say rapid fire, there’s no in my world there’s no such thing as rapid fire. I’m I’m uh I’m a sloth, so you know it’s gonna be a question, and please take your time, there’s no problem. But it is can you give us one mental habit that you think every amateur should steal from elite players?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 43:06

I think the one they can truly steal is warming up before every round, and that’s warming up both physically and mentally. So not only have a few swings, stretch, you know, hit a few balls, but use your pre-shot routine in your warm-up, even if it’s just round the chip and green, you know, visualise your shots, pick your landing spot, go through it. Maybe go as far as, you know, just thinking about how you want to handle yourself on the course on the course ahead, you know, okay, what’s my goals for today? What am I what do I want to focus on? Okay, what’s what’s what’s my strategy? What am I looking to do out there? And like just kind of get get the brain going so that when you get to the first T, you’re ready to go. And it’s a say it’s a case of right, okay, this is the shot I want to hit, there’s my target, let’s fully commit to it, rather than get into the first T and sort of kind of hoping for the best for the first you know two or three holes, and then once we kind of get going, we’re into that that flow of things. I’d say that’s the thing that can be uh directly stolen.

Nish: 44:00

Wonderful, yes. I mean, uh Chris is a uh religious warmer-upper. I I’m I’m not, I mean, I’m not a turn up last minute, you know, I’m not that kind of person. I I hate being late for golf because it’s uh supposed to be relaxing, and when you’re late, it’s not. But um I could very easily, and sometimes I played my best golf and I’m just just turned up and just swung from the first T and it’s kind of happened, it’s just happening on automatic, which I suppose is actually there’s probably some that’s the dangerous thing.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 44:28

It’s a bit like uh it’s a bit like winning at the casino, isn’t it? It makes you want to go back, which is is not the good thing.

Nish: 44:34

It’s on no practice.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 44:36

I I kind of think with the with the not warming up and then playing well, it kind of makes us feel like, oh, okay, maybe this, maybe this is something that works for me. Whereas, you know, I always think of it as like rolling a dice. We all have that situation where you know we all we all get there sometimes, even if it’s just a quick you know, nine holes after finishing working or whatever, you you kind of go out there and you’re just walking straight out, you know, you just play, and sometimes you do play great, you know, you make that first swing, it feels good and and kind of off you go. But there’s always that chance, probably quite a stronger chance, that we’re not quite moving that well, you know, we’re not quite switched on, and then you know, we we make a double bug, uh double bogey at the first, and we kind of go like, why don’t I have to go to the store? Exactly. We do everything right, yes, we can still double the first, of course, but at least we know that it’s not through a very, very avoidable error.

Nish: 45:18

Yeah, I mean I hasten to add it’s usually because I’m off filming something somewhere, so I don’t get the chance, and you know, I’m like enviously looking over at Chris just hitting 50 balls at the range and lining everything up. I’m like, oh man, I really should have should have got a chance to do that. Um, what do you think is the worst mental advice that golfers give each other?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 45:37

You know, there’s so many, you know, just stay positive is is a bad is is pretty bad to be honest, because like oh, you know, like and like sort of mindless like positivity, oh at least the sun’s shining, you know, something like that. It it just doesn’t help us play good golf, it it’s just a bit of it’s a bit of mindless mindless.

Nish: 45:54

I think it infuriates you, but doesn’t it a bit more? You’re just like oh just book her off. Like I don’t need to hear that right now.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 46:00

100% or you know, just oh pretend you’re on the range, you know, something like as if we could sort of you know someone walking across a tightrope and say, Oh, just pretend, you know, walking down the road. Like it’s it’s it’s just not really possible, you know. We we need to we need to acknowledge where we are and acknowledge the what we’re trying to do, and then you know, focus on being able to put ourselves in in the right mindset. I think some of these thoughts that are just kind of designed to try and make us feel calm, but don’t put us in a mindset that actually helps you play good golf at all.

Nish: 46:31

Yeah, okay, now I understand. Um, so we you know our our game could be boiled down to four types of shot. You got T-shots, you got approach shots, you got short game around the greens, and then you got putting. Where do you think that golfers lose it most mentally?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 46:49

Mentally, interesting. Um I always think of ball striking as like the engine of your golf game. So your ceiling and floor is gonna largely be determined by how well you strike the golf ball. So if you struggle to hit any greens in regulation, you could be the best putter in the world, but it’s still gonna be really hard to shoot any any great scores. The chipping and the putting, putting in particular, then becomes kind of the bit that determines where in that that kind of floor to ceiling that we actually shoot. So somebody that’s a a great ball striker that then has a good putting day, that tends to be the person that wins a scratch tournament. Because they’ve got their midpoint is is is in a really good place. They’re they’re a really, really solid ball striker, and then on those days where putts drop, that’s when that they then that’s when they then are able to play their absolute best and shoot the best goals. And it goes through the hole of golf, you know, regardless of of where we are. Well, I say through the hole of golf, through kind of lower ends of of golf, it it’s the putting that tends to determine. You’d actually say then maybe more towards the top end, um, actually lost balls off the tee, probably actually has as bigger effect as another thing as well. Yeah, but yeah, so I just kind of caught myself on that one there. But that’s that, I mean, that could be a whole 20-minute conversation of breaking down each handicap zone. But as a whole, our ball striking determines the floor to ceiling, and then the the putting is what determines how well we actually score on that day. You said there about kind of where where does a golfer struggle more mentally? Yeah, one thing I’ve really learned from from being a mental coach is actually each golfer has an area that we have less confidence in. And it’s easy to see the game through our own eyes and think, oh, everybody must feel this way about different areas. But I’ve coached people who they are phenomenal putters, they literally are they’re thinking about what blade of grass they’re dropping it in the hole over, but then with the driver they they really struggle, vice versa, and then everything else in between, you know. It’s so interpersonal to to kind of um to kind of what what is the area that each person struggles with.

Nish: 49:14

It’s fascinating, isn’t it? Yeah, you know, it’s you are right, I suppose. If you you know if you’re hitting it, hitting it well. I mean, I’ve got to use ball striking, I’m gonna use the colloquially I’ll say hitting it well. It probably does feed into everything, doesn’t it? Because you’re just feeling good about everything generally, and you’re in a good mind space, and you know, it’s it’s it it probably what the cliche would be it filters down the rest of your bag kind of thing.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 49:38

Yeah, yeah, or even just I I like to think of it as you know, our ball striking is kind of like an overall ability, sort of like our, you know, an average ball striking day, you know, the the typical amount of maybe greens and regulation we hit, the typical amount of times we, you know, as in less being obviously good, the the the lesser kind of penalty shots and OB shots, you know, the distance we can hit it, the consistency of of how well we can strike it, you know, the that will correlate really well with kind of different scoring zones. There’s guys that you know hit it slightly better and shoot 80 every week and hit it slightly worse and shoot 80 every week, but generally you take a bunch of guys who shoot 75 to 82, they’re gonna be consistently better ball strikers than 88 to 95. Whereas there’s actually gonna be a maybe a bit more disparity with putting, and also then it’s that like it also kind of doesn’t really matter how good you are at putting, if you’re that kind of 88 to 95 shooter that that hits the greens and regulation in line with that, they’re gonna struggle to get their game down to that that lower zone. Whereas if they improved their ball striking, it would go down to that lower zone a lot a lot more quickly than if they did it, tried to do it by improving their putting.

Nish: 50:46

Yeah, interesting. I mean, uh well, we’re we’re at a period of time now as well where a lot of people’s thoughts are turned to game improvement. You know, I want to bed in a new swing or new swing thought, new routine, whatever it is. And you know, you’re a big advocate of getting your pre-shot routine right, and that’s consistent, you do it every time. And it’s a good time to do it now. If you know if you are the kind of person who doesn’t maybe listen to what you said before and making it meaningful practice, if you’re gonna hit hundred balls, at least do the same routine a hundred times, that becomes just what you do. Yeah. Um, and I’ve now lost what my friend of thought was, had it all set up there. Um, yeah, if it’s like if you’re you’re thinking of sort of game improvement and and and that’s where we’re at now. Um, how long do you think somebody would need if they started working with you to, you know, they went on your website now and they’re like, right, actually, I want to sort of absorb some of this information and it’s great, there’s some great stuff on Instagram already. How long do you think they kind of need before they can start seeing some meaningful improvements in their game?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 51:48

I’m a big believer that, you know, the first thing I’ll always do when I work with guys is is make sure that their practice is where we want it to be. So I build what I call tailored practice plans for people, and they’re kind of like kind of like a gym plan, but for when you go to the driving range, it sort of gives you drills and games and things to do. So they’re the first things that I always um set up for people right at the start, you know, at the same time as talking to them about kind of what their goals are, what they’re trying to achieve, and you know, really get to start getting to know that golfer. But one of the first things I set up is a is a tailored practice plan. And and the big thing is if if a person can stick to that tailored practice plan, and to be honest, if any golfer just was able to fit in two to three hours a week where they practiced properly, you know, they put in some drills, which I mean they change club, they change target, they change flight, they give themselves new problems to solve, they can play some games that create pressure. If they can do that two or three hours practice consistently for six, eight weeks, they’re gonna make significant improvements to their their golf game. And that kind of as a standalone thing, I’ve I’ve had a lot of people just just using using that and seeing really good improvements. And then and then when you start kind of building on top of that, the the pre-shop routines and the strategy and then the the kind of narrative and the self-talk and the mindset stuff, it then kind of all kind of combines together. But yeah, that kind of you know, I see improvements in four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks. It’s it’s um, it does depend on on what the person kind of puts in.

Nish: 53:14

But yeah, yeah, yeah, how much practice you’re putting in, of course. Yeah.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 53:17

Exactly. But you know, I one thing that I’m you know, it’s never lost on me. Like it’s you know, when when guys do sort of start working together and they’re you know they’re really energized and get straight to it and see some, you know, getting messages say, Oh, you know, I just broke 80 or you know, whatever it is, it’s it is fantastic. It is it is great to kind of be a part of of kind of helping people do that. It’s it’s it’s great.

Nish: 53:35

Has it has there been a I mean it’s 14 years is a long time, and if you’re asking me to remember something over that time stretch, it’s not happening. But has there ever been a a success story that you’ve just kind of gone like, wow, even I’m surprised by how either quickly or how well that’s gone? Yeah, so there’s everything stick stick out.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 53:55

There is one that really comes to mind actually, and um I still work with this golfer now, but he and he was quite a beginner at the time, you know, like a like a 28-odd handicapper. And he said to me, he said, Look, I want to do the mental side of the game first, and then I’ll worry about the swing afterwards, which is the total opposite way round to what essentially everybody wants to do. Yeah, and I was like, Okay, like I like the sound of that. Sounds sounds cool. Like almost just kind of interested to see if that would even work, if you know what I mean. Like, is it because a lot of what I’d done up to that point had been elite golfers, local area, yeah, you know, helping guys that are pros get better or get you know from low, you know, single low, low digit handicaps towards kind of the program was was typically what I’d done a lot of up to that point. And kind of went into that and he was at 28 handicap, and within I want to say it was within kind of a year, he was down to 10, which was just mad. Wow. And he just, you know, and like I say, it it’s you know, you can lead a horse to water, but you know, they it’s very much like he was on it, he was out there doing loads of on-course practice, loads of the games, the drills, all sorts of the any any kind of stuff I gave him, you know, really digging into the routines and all that type of stuff. And it it blew my mind to be honest, and kind of still does, really, like that, and it was one of those ones where especially early on in that in that type of thing, you know, I it was uh a real, real like it positively affirmed kind of like okay, yeah, these things work for one handicappers that want to get to plus and then turn pro, it works for all golfers, and you know, with with some of the the things that I’ll put out there about, you know, I’m always very mindful of what I’m claiming that my coaching can do. And a lot of these kind of stories here where you see someone just you know shoot down their handicap, you’re just like, yeah, like I do, you know, the the it’s amazing that isn’t it.

Nish: 55:46

I think the thing is when you when you’re getting into like that kind of 10 and then go down to single figure kind of range, you know, you’re almost getting into the territory of which is what I’m finding anyway from from my my journey and speaking to more golfers or whatever, you’re gonna you’re kind of getting into that territory of you’ve got to be like putting in a serious amount of time in the practice and the playing on the course. And we you know with the greatest will in the world, we’d love to all do that. Of course we would, but we don’t have that kind of luxury of time. I mean, what a phenomenal transformation that is in a year. I think we’d all take that 18 shots off your handicap. Man, isn’t it? And and like you said, in in the meantime, he’s actually still learning the actual how to play the game. But he’s gonna be a good thing.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 56:25

He didn’t really actually do any swing coaching in that whole time. He he he’s gone on since then to do some swing coaching and now swings it better in his you know, single-figure handicapper and you know all that type of stuff. But yeah, it it was yeah, truly, truly mad how you know he he was almost uh a test case for skill acquisition research, you know, discovery learning is the is the term, you know, learn something by trying to do it and you know attempting different things and learning by discovery, you know, the way a the way a kid might learn to ride a bike or or similar. And but just doing that without any kind of explicit, you know, swing it like this, grip it like this, do this, yeah. Just following kind of drills and and and games and and going through the the kind of processes and strategies and different things there, yeah. Kind of became a kind of accidental test case that that kind of shows that that stuff just really, really works.

Nish: 57:13

That is that’s blow my mind, honestly. That I wasn’t expecting it to give such a big drop in in handicap. And within a year as well, that is crazy.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 57:23

It’s been loads as well, like a lot of guys, you know, going from kind of that four, five, six handicap down to scratch in in quite quick periods of time. Yeah, it’s it’s you know, especially guys that have worked a lot on their golf swing, like done a lot of like the opposite of this example I gave here. But you know, guys that have you know really, really focused on technique for a long time haven’t really looked at practice structure, the the mental side of the game, pre-shot routine, strategy, that kind of thing. They’ve just got so much low-hanging fruit that they can dig into. And if they put you know, 40% of the passion they’ve put into to working on technique, they can actually just make some unbelievably good advan advancements and and transfer the stuff they’ve done on the range and the way that they do strike the ball when they’re when they’re thinking about swinging, they can start transferring that out to the course. I’ve seen a lot, a lot of that as well.

Nish: 58:12

Just shows you the power of the mind, doesn’t it? That it’s so good at just being able to focus you in and zero you in on improvements and and it will, you know, for it’s done that for a beginner, you know. If you say somebody go from picking up clubs to a 10 handicap in a 12-month period, yeah, people are just gonna nah, you’re joking, that’s not gonna happen. But lo and behold, it’s it’s there, isn’t it? That’s that’s unbelievable. That’s unbelievable. Well, look, I’ll be before we get into our sort of you know final couple of questions I really want to get out of you and bits of information I want to get out of you. Um do what I did. Please follow Andrew on Instagram. Like it is honestly, it’s a treasure trove of information. So he’s the COG coach uh on Instagram. The links are in the in the description, so you know please head there, it’s amazing. And and one of the things that Andrew’s doing right now is he’s doing an eight-week challenge, and that is to get you to improve your golf, just play better golf, and better golf is you’re gonna be happier and all that kind of stuff. So um check it out on his website. I know Andrew’s not gonna plug it because I know what he’s like, he’s not he’s um he’s he’s not uh wanting to blow his own trumpet, but I’ll do that because honestly, the like the Instagram stuff is just incredible. So even if you just do that, you’re gonna pick up so much amazing stuff about how to play this this game and I think change the way you look at it. And it has helped me immensely. I think I I probably would get beaten up by some of these golf courses if I didn’t listen to some of your advice. Thanks, Ross. Appreciate it. Oh absolutely my pleasure, absolutely my pleasure. So um uh I’m gonna ask another sort of top 100 ish question. So we sort of talked about you know your your your favourite course and all that kind of thing. Has there ever been a time that you turned up to a had gone to a top course, you know, it and you’re excited, aren’t you? That’s the whole great thing about playing some of these golf courses. And you yourself have had an absolute stinker and you just thought, what have I done here?

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 1:00:12

You know what they they do they beat you up, don’t they? These golf courses, you know, it is it and where was it?

Nish: 1:00:17

Please, please name names.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 1:00:18

I wonder so I’d say Sawgrass beat me up a bit, but I also played quite well. Like it’s just tough. Like you you can’t really miss a shot and it’s you know super super super hard. Yeah. Muirfield um I I’ve played and that it was a really windy day. And to say how windy it was we we got back into the clubhouse and we were sitting there and there were some some locals on the next table and they could obviously see you know four lads from Essex. You could tell we weren’t we weren’t locals from the area they sort of said like how did you get on and um yeah one of the guys I was with said said the scores we shot and they just looked at us and went what you actually scored today. You know just because the wind was so strong and they were just like we’d never do that on a day like this. We’re just out there you know hitting a few shots. So yeah it did absolutely you know um beat me up there. But yeah it was a it was on a super tough day. But yeah these courses you know when when you don’t you know have your have your game it’s it’s it’s not a case of oh I’ve blocked it a bit I’ll just you know I’m I’m in a bit of semi rough and it’s actually kind of fine over here because there’s another hole it’s you know it’s you know okay this isn’t this isn’t where I want to you’re holding on for dear life sometimes aren’t you you really need to remember that you do love this game and you know you are enjoying yourself and remind yourself of that a little bit and yeah I mean we we had a we had a 50 mile an hour wind at Carnousti and um yeah I mean in fairness didn’t absolutely disgrace ourselves which was which was interesting.

Nish: 1:01:46

I mean I had a challenge I set myself a target I was like you know I don’t want to lose a golf ball for a full 18 holes at one of these top 100 courses and I’d got through this was last year got through 14 golf courses and I’d I’d you know I’d I’d made it to 18 sometimes and lost it on 18 and I did it at Carnoostie and I was like how have I done this in 50 mile an hour wins at Carnoosty which everybody says is one of the brutally hardest open venues going like a yeah I’ll I’ll be I’ll be dining on that for the rest of my life like it I’ve got the ball it’s all saved I’ve got my hole in one ball and I’ve got my Carnousti ball like those are the two things that I’ve just got saved. It’s amazing um yeah okay right well my one final question for you Andrew because this has been fascinating uh but I think this is gonna crystallise everything if you could give our listeners one thing that they should try on their next round that’s gonna make their golf more enjoyable what would it be um okay I’ll give I’m gonna I’ll answer the question in two ways. So the first one You can give me two things if you want as well it’s not a problem. Yeah don’t worry about it. The first one would be to aim halfway between the pin and the centre of the green on every approach shot and see what happens to your score halfway between the pin and the centre I’m just trying to get my head around that so the pin you’ve got like a yeah like a like a dot in the middle of the green.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 1:03:22

Yeah okay if the pin’s in the front left corner I’m halfway between that that pin and that dot in the middle if the pin’s in the back right so you’re almost creating like a little circle in the middle of the green that you’re aiming at but just a little bit towards the hole. You know that might be absolutely genius you know just because you how many times you leave it short and or you you know whatever you just but you’re creating a zone aren’t you to go for what you’re doing is you if you imagine all your approach shots I said that like I was surprised Andrew I shouldn’t have been surprised of course it’s gonna be genius you’re the cop coach it’s gonna happen but so with your approach shots almost imagine like you know like when you hit balls in a track man and you’ve got like kind of the dots over the grid like it’s almost imagine you’ve got your dispersion with your 50 degree wedge your eight iron or your seven iron whatever it is you’ve got that circle or you know it’s gonna be slightly like skewed to one side but close to a circle it’s placing as much of that circle over safe stuff as possible.

Nish: 1:04:17

So if you place where you’re aiming slightly towards the middle of the green all of a sudden that’s that dispersion covers a lot more green than if you aimed at something that’s on the edge that brings in fascinating you know what you’re saying to aim so get a point of the centre of the green and then aim for a point halfway between that centre point and where the pin is exactly that. Brilliant right I’m on it and play golf tomorrow so I will try that.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 1:04:42

Like it like it the other thing I was going to say as well is I was going to say something that golfers can do that isn’t actually during a round of golf but just practice for one hour a week and over the course of a year that’s 52 hours of practice. Imagine practicing now nonstop for 52 hours it sometimes we tell ourselves oh this one hour is not going to make a difference if I’m not doing 10 it doesn’t help but one hour a week consistently is will lead to to serious improvements. So yeah that those two things together that’s that’s what’s great.

Nish: 1:05:12

And it must be meaningful practice as well meaningful practice yeah absolutely I would try and get one more out of you Andrew I’m gonna try and get one more out of you so what would you say is uh and it’s probably something that’s personal because I I can imagine all of this is personal but um is there like a little golden nugget bit of self-talk that you think every let’s say amateurs I think most people listening are going to be amateurs I’d love it if there were some actual professionals listening but an amateur golfer should just say to themselves pre-round mid-round after a shot whatever we’re like is there one thing that you think is worth taking away a big thing that that will help everybody is to remind ourselves that that truly nobody else really cares what we shoot how we play.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 1:05:58

Brilliant it it’s it’s only us that cares and actually that’s a good thing.

Nish: 1:06:03

It’s good that nobody else really cares so we can just focus on doing what we need to do to try and play the best golf we can and and enjoy it the most we can yeah I remember giving Chris this advice it was like it was really hard on himself I was like Chris just go easy on yourself like it it’s it’s fine.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 1:06:21

You played well like it’s fine don’t don’t beat yourself up a little bit you know and you know what like even you know I I’m a coach but I’m also a human being too is something that I definitely at times will will need to remind myself you know we’re we’re only human it’s it’s natural you know again if we want to go into the kind of like the evolutionary psychology of why we care what other people think like we do you know we’re we’re a kind of a tribal species we we exist in groups so therefore it’s natural to come it’s natural to care what other people think around us.

Nish: 1:06:50

It’s just on the golf course it’s just it’s it’s key to remind ourselves that that person probably cares as much about our game as we do about the specifics of of of their game you know we we we probably care much more about them being good company you know being enjoyable to be around rather than like oh you know I can’t believe you didn’t hit that four iron on the green on the on the 13th hole yeah yeah I mean you know it it it but it’s a it’s a game of misnomers isn’t it you know you’re always playing with other people you very seldom play on your own I mean one of my life’s great pleasures for me is putting some headphones on and going out and playing around on my own and just messing around really and trying different shots and whatever but generally speaking you play with other people and you’re talking to them and there’s the social side and then but that does bring out that whole oh what are they thinking of me and but actually they don’t care.

Andrew – The Cog Coach: 1:07:40

And it’s just normal it’s normal to think that and that’s another thing to remind ourselves yeah it’s totally normal to to think that way but but yeah remind ourselves that actually they’re they’re probably not thinking that much at all.

Nish: 1:07:50

Ah Andrew what an absolute pleasure it’s been talking to you today it was everything I hoped for and more guys please do go and check out Andrew he’s just honestly he will change the way you look at your your golf and how you view it and and I would genuinely say hand on heart I’m not saying it’s because you’re on here or anything I mean I’ve invited you to be on here because of this this fact but I thoroughly enjoy my golf now and I thoroughly enjoy it because I’ve used some changes in the way I look at it and I and I approach it and and I’ve loosened that importance with what the number is at the end of it um away from my enjoyment of golf because we play a wonderful game a wonderful wonderful game if you can take it in that spirit I think for sure now yeah really kind words and really appreciate that I’m yeah super glad that that it that it helps and yeah really appreciate what you said there and yeah thanks so much for having me on really enjoyed it. I think we’ll all agree that that was absolutely brilliant. And I think the big takeaway for me is that most of us don’t necessarily need a better swing. We just need a better way of thinking and what we’re going to do and how we’re gonna react when things don’t go to plan. So if you’re listening to this before your next round I’d really encourage you to pick just one thing that we talked about and try it. Not absolutely everything just one try one change. So massive thanks to Andrew the Cog coach for coming on and sharing not just his theory but the real life stories behind it. I’ll put his website and his Instagram uh in the show notes uh if you want to dig a little bit deeper into his work and as always if you enjoy this episode please share it with a golf mate uh especially one who loses his head after one bad hole I think we’ve all got that kind of pal, haven’t we? So if you’re new and if you’re new here this is the Top 100 in 10 golf podcast where the long term goal is we’re trying to play the top 100 courses in the UK and Ireland in just 10 years. But along the way we’re trying to help people become better golfers. So until next time on the Top 100 in 10 golf podcast