Return of The Back

Nish: 0:00

Every story has an ending. Does our quest to play the top 100 courses in 10 years have a good ending? I’m Nish, I’m Jim and we’re here to guide you through this golfing journey. This is the Top 100 in 10 Golf Podcast

Nish: 0:14

, episode – The.

Nish: 0:16

The return They the back pain help, that’s terrible, they say. You should always leave your audience wanting more. That’s what we did when 100 in 10 did our Denika first episode with our official vertibrae 110 physio, danika. So she’s back like vertiprae with a jam-packed episode and we’ll be covering some general advice for the start of the season. It’s going to be a really, really good, physio-approved warm-up routine and then Q&A going to go into a bit of a q a where we’ll answer some of your questions. So the time is nearly upon us Golf season’s going to be around in any any second now. Really, I mean, you can get out there and play, I suppose now, but with it being the dead of winter right now, you need to make sure that you get yourself nice and warm and limber and all that kind of thing. So do you have any general advice for for people you know you’ve gone through a period of inactivity into how to get back into it?

Denika: 1:10

well, first of all, thanks for having me back well, you’re very welcome very honored to be back a second time.

Denika: 1:14

Um, so, yeah, I think the big thing is if you’ve had christmas period where you’ve been out of action, maybe over indulgence we all do out of action, maybe over indulgence, we all do, definitely, um, and you’ve been out of exercise for a little while, as a physio, we tend to see people if you’ve either overdone it or you’ve overdone it sorry, or underdone it, um, so if you’re going straight back into your golf without any exercise at all, then you’re more likely to cause yourself a bit of a mishap. Um, so, yeah. So something as simple as getting cardiovascular, um, fitness improved, brisk walking. So if you’re more likely to cause yourself a bit of a mishap, um, so, yeah, so something as simple as getting cardiovascular and fitness improved, brisk walking. So if you’re not a runner, does it matter? It could be that you’re into cycling. Something to elevate the heart rate is always really useful.

Denika: 1:55

Um, but also thinking about warm-ups. Now it’s interesting because I’m not a golfer, but you guys were saying um, it’s making the time for that warm-up. So especially, you know, if you’re going to be playing a good few hours, you want to make sure that you’re not putting yourself at risk of shoulder back injuries. So there’s different bits we can have a talk through in terms of warm-up and mobility exercises, that you know you can spend as little or as long as you want, but even just doing literally five minutes um of a warm-up is enough to just get things activated and hopefully reduce the occurrence of any injuries so do you think that’s that’s a really key thing to do?

Nish: 2:31

then doing a warm-up? You know, going straight into it’s not really the right thing to.

Denika: 2:36

Yeah, that’s it right, okay you’ll get some people who probably say do you know what? I never do a warm-up and I’ve been injury free and I’m totally fine, brilliant. But for most people, if you are deconditioned, you’ve been out of exercise for even just for a couple of weeks, if you’re not doing your warm-up, then it might be that you get that little niggle and all through the season you’re like oh, do you know what? I’ve played around there and I’ve just got that little niggle, and sometimes it’ll just stay as a little niggle, but sometimes, especially as we’re getting a little bit older, I’m not looking around the room at all.

Nish: 3:05

I mean there’s not going to be a third time is there older and wiser, of course well, maybe not if you’re not doing your warm-up.

Denika: 3:17

Yeah, exactly, um, but yeah, as we get older, um, in the body there’s many different structures, but especially tendon. So tendon health, as you get older you can be prone to getting things like tendonitis, tenopathy, especially like shoulder. You’ve got your rotator cuff, which is a massive group of four muscles. So again, with that swinging action, um, if you’re not warming up your shoulder or you’ve got poor shoulder mobility and then you’re trying to get you know when you’re swinging that amount of force through it, then you might be more prone to having issues you’ll get. Some people say I’ve never had any issues. But yeah, I think as a physio we tend to see people with shoulder problems, back problems related to patients I’ve had with golfing injuries. So, yeah, doing a warm-up, but hopefully you can never say you’re never going to have an injury. But it should minimize the risk of picking up those niggles yeah, interesting, isn’t it, that I think you don’t prioritize that.

Nish: 4:11

I don’t think, as a golfer turning up, I mean we’re in. Uh, I suppose we should. We should say this for for posterity, because this is out there in the ether now and everybody will know about this. But we’re, but we’re actually filming on location today and recording on location. We’re at Jim’s flat.

Denika: 4:29

That’s lovely.

Nish: 4:30

And it’s massive. So I can understand how he probably will run late now because it will take him ages to find all of his gear. It’s in the car boot, it’s fine. You would not believe how long it took me to try and segue your new flat into the script. But yeah, we do plenty of times. Habitually I’m calling Jim 10 minutes before the tea time. I’m pretty sure you remember that we are playing today, but you are on your way, aren’t you?

Denika: 4:57

You know that kind of thing.

Nish: 4:57

I’m not worried about his warm-up, don’t worry, but you know yeah, I think, yeah, I suppose it’s only five minutes and they’re just making five minutes to do yeah and the the whole idea of it.

Denika: 5:09

It wants to be functional to what you’re doing, so we’re going to do a little filming of it later. But using your golf club as part of your warm-up um is really easy. So there’s like maybe four or five kind of key exercises we’ll go through um, but that’ll look at focusing on like shoulder mobility, spine and hips, just getting used to that. I think the big thing with golf is the amount of force and rotation going through your spine and through the body.

Denika: 5:34

So just doing a few simple exercises just to try and get those areas moving and mobile, because it’s also interesting, you know, through the week, if you have got, you know you might have an active job. Brilliant, you’re on your feet. But if you’re in a sedentary job as well, where you sat at a desk or you sat working from home, your spine’s not really doing much with itself. Then you’re going to go off for a few hours playing golf and actually give you back that little bit of mobility and movement before you get into the swing of things she wasn’t talking about us with you know working the working and I was gonna say but she was definitely talking about us with the advancing years wasn’t she absolutely wise, though older and wiser interesting, though because too late, what you mentioned before about tendons so what?

Nish: 6:22

what is it about? Is it the type of tissue that it is?

Denika: 6:25

yeah, so it’s interesting. So your, your tendon tissue um is basically a lot of protein in there and but your tendon fibers, the 10 I can’t get the word out the tendon of fibers, and basically over time, as we age and this happens to everyone, regardless of injuries you’ve basically got like your tendon fibers which are quite tight and as we get a bit older, those tendon fibers they can become infiltrated with kind of inflammation, with water, and basically what that does then is it reduces the tensile structure of the tendon. So as we all get older, that process will be happening. So if you did a scan and it’s really interesting actually, and they’ve done it with discs in the spine as well so if you scanned everyone in their 40s people with no back pain will show signs of the disc material dehydrated or potential disc bulges and but they’re walking around, they don’t know about it and for a percentage then of people, they’ll have that disc dehydration or that tendon issue and they will start getting pain from it.

Denika: 7:31

So, yeah, tendons in particular can be prone to if you’re again overdoing it and inflammation in that area. So that’s where the itis comes from. So tendonitis, um, or your epicondylitis yeah, that was great advice.

Nish: 7:44

By the way, that braces really helped. Yeah, yeah um.

Denika: 7:47

So it’s looking at ways we can’t stop the aging process. But what are the things we can do to manage, um, you know, kind of minimize the the um pain that we’re getting?

Nish: 8:00

and it’s.

Denika: 8:01

It’s normal after any kind of activity to have that little bit of ache in the next day and in a way it’s it’s normal after any kind of activity to have that little bit of aching the next day and in a way it’s good, because it’s a good sign that our body is being used and it’s working. So we called it doms delayed onset, muscle soreness. You’ll know that gym from the gym yeah, yeah, yeah, after yesterday that’s it.

Denika: 8:21

But that’s a good sign, because what happens with the doms is so you exercise the muscle and again your muscles got fibers and over the course of doing that workout and the next 24 hours the muscle breaks down and then it builds up again and as it’s building up again, that’s where it builds its strength. Um, so yeah, so basically you just want to make sure that you’re doing enough activity to get that muscle rebuild, without then overdoing it to the point where you’re getting that inflammation and that water kind of infiltrating the area and that that in itself can cause pain then as well and then in terms of, is that important then, to make sure that you’ve got the right diet, so you’ve got high protein, you’ll be doing weights to make sure that it actually when the muscle grows back, yeah, that particular time that it does, with all the nutrients that it needs yeah, and it’s really interesting that with diet, because people always say what supplements um should I take, what would be useful, and do you know what?

Denika: 9:16

there’s a million and one things that you can take, like your creatines, your protein shakes, um, but just making sure you’ve got a good, balanced diet, so making sure for your weight you’re eating the right amount of protein. That’s something you can do. And then I think we might have touched on this last time, but I did um a nutrition modules part of my sports rehab course years ago, and milk. So they looked at different. Do you remember we were saying about this service? They looked at different types of protein supplements like whey, creatine powders, different things, and they looked at it with olympic athletes and the. The one that had um. The best effect was milk because it’s got a protein called casein in it. So within half an hour of your chosen activity, have a glass of milk and that’s a good way to bump up your protein is that whole milk specifically?

Denika: 10:02

whole whole milk you can use. Yeah, you could probably use semi-skin, but whole milk would be better, just because it’s got, yeah, probably all the right bits in there.

Jim: 10:10

And if you’re an Olympic athlete, you’re going to burn off the fat anyway, aren’t?

Denika: 10:12

you, yeah, exactly.

Nish: 10:14

Casein and the sunshine band. There you go, told you, I was in charge of the puns.

Denika: 10:25

I mean, that class thing really got me through a very rigorous club fitting.

Nish: 10:27

You didn’t know what I was going to say then. Yeah, I dreaded to think really yeah, because I mean we came out of that club fitting and we did like 200 balls in about an hour and 15 minutes and we both just well, I mean probably shouldn’t admit it because it’s just golf, but we were sweating, we were really warm.

Jim: 10:46

I didn’t have to be told to stop and have a break.

Nish: 10:49

He actually said to me have a break if you like. So I must have looked really goosed. The problem was I was wearing a thick GA Because it was cold outside, but it was lovely and warm inside and I was like oh and I didn’t really. The T-shirt was too tight so I wasn’t going to take that off, so I was basically just wearing like a duvet.

Denika: 11:12

No wonder you’re warm.

Nish: 11:14

No wonder I could hit the ball so far. It was great. Well, look, I think we’ve established I’m a last minute person, we’ve established Jim’s a last minute person, but we can also understand that there’ll be a lot of people who aren’t and they want something a bit meatier from a warm-up routine. So we have. We obviously covered that in the last episode a little bit. Yeah, I think you said even just rolling your shoulders back is a good start yeah, just doing some shoulder rolls.

Denika: 11:35

And even just in the day, if you are at your desk or you’re just at home, we can all be in that little kind of hunched posture, not realized, especially when you’re focusing on concentrating. So just doing a few shoulder rolls and just think about rolling your shoulders up, down and almost like pulling your shoulder blades down, and that in itself is just nice. I mean, I’m just doing that. It’s lovely just to squeeze and give everything a good stretch as well.

Nish: 12:00

Um, but yeah I’ll edit that out, jim don’t. Nobody wants to hear that. Oh, oh, that’s good leave it in leave it in.

Nish: 12:11

Yeah, okay, well, you’ve given us, uh, as part of our sort of mobility warm-up thing, you’ve given, certainly given me, six sort of exercises. I just wonder if you might be able to sort of describe them to people and, and, um, you know, hopefully we can, we can have an idea of how long that might take if you’re just waiting on the tea, even for somebody else to tee off. If you can do that, so yeah, and that’s it, fire away, danika it’d be really good you could do this as a warm-up.

Denika: 12:34

But also, if you’re playing with a few people, there’s nothing to stop you from doing a few of these on the way around as well, just to keep yourself supple and mobile. And so you’ll need a club not a golf stick, as I was calling a golf club and for these exercises which you’ll have as you’re playing. And the big thing is thinking about that posture.

Denika: 12:55

So we’d again roll the shoulders, set that nice posture, you want a little bit of a softness in your knees and you’re thinking about keeping um, as if someone’s got a little piece of string on the top of your head, and pulling you up nice and tall. So you’re keeping just that lovely length through the spine then, and so for the first one, you’re going to hold it in both hands, so you’ve got a good grip. Start with your hands down by your thighs, and then you’re literally just going to lift up the golf club. Now where people will go wrong is they’ll think more is better, so they’ll really lift it, but what they’ll start doing is arching the back, and what that’s doing then is it’s not isolating the shoulder enough. So if you’re keeping that nice long, tall spine bringing the golf club up. You might even get halfway and you’re like, oh right.

Nish: 13:40

And that’s with straight arms, and that’s with straight arms.

Denika: 13:49

So try and think about keeping just a little bit of softness in the elbow, but relatively straight, and as you’re coming up, then what it’s going to do is just give the shoulder a bit of a stretch, your pec muscles around the chest a little bit of a stretch, but you shouldn’t feel that you’re excessively leaning back. When we do the video, we can go through a few little hints and tips for that. You want to hold it up at the top for about five seconds and then, nice, and slowly come down, and probably doing about five of those is enough If you wanted to do a few more and you’ve got the time, brilliant. But that’s just a nice way to start opening up your chest as well, because I suppose with the swinging you might be prone to getting a little bit tight around there as well. So, yeah, so that’s the first one.

Denika: 14:26

Second one then we’re going to do the opposite movement, so this time again, shoulders rolled down and back that length through the spine. We’re going to hold the club behind us in both hands. So from here again you’re wanting to push back, so it’s going to help open up the shoulders, open up the chest, um, with all of these as well, nice relaxed breathing, because if you’re pushing and you’re holding your breath, you’re not getting that nice relaxation as well. Um, and again, where people will go wrong is as they push back. They’ll tip forward thinking, oh great, I’m getting loads more movement here, but you’re not, you’re cheating. So you want to keep that nice tall spine pushing back with the club and you can feel, even just doing it without a club, you can feel a nice stretch there through your arms and your chest and again doing at least five of those just to try and get things going. So that’s number two, and then the third one we’re doing like a deadlift movement.

Nish: 15:18

So, jim, you’ll be well versed in these from the gym quite a few yesterday there we go and the idea I don’t know if we’ve has it become clear that jim went to the gym yesterday?

Denika: 15:28

I don’t think that. Has that been mentioned?

Nish: 15:29

I don’t know, did you do legs by any chance yesterday? I love it um.

Denika: 15:37

But again, deadlifts are brilliant. Um, this is more mobility, but obviously if you had a bit of weight behind it then it’s more strengthening. Um. So again, you want that softness in the knees, especially with the deadlift. You want to keep that limb through the spine. You’d have hold of your club in front of your thighs and then you’re literally just hinging at the hip. So again, I always think it. You know, in the 80s there was that little duck that would sit on people’s desk and it would like bob into the water and back again.

Denika: 16:05

Think of that type of motion. So again we’ll demonstrate on the video, but nice and kind of hinging at the hip, keeping the length through the spine and then coming back up again so you basically slide in the golf club from the front of the thigh down to like your knee or your shin, if you’ve got the mobility, and then back up again and breathing wise this one you can breathe out on the way down and then breathe in on the way up. Um, and that’s just a really nice way to just get core muscles, your spine and all that area just nice and mobile.

Nish: 16:30

It’s a good symptoms reference in that little thing yeah, I don’t know what it was called homer was working from home safety officer and he’s just got the thing just to press.

Jim: 16:41

Yes, that’s it, yeah to vent the steam, and then it didn’t, and then it yeah, it went and exploded well, it’s quite relevant nowadays because, obviously, since people have been working from home a hell of a lot more since, as a result of covid, moving your mouse moving your mouse yeah, doing that on the space bar, so it actually shows when everyone’s on teams that you’re active but it’s you’ve got a green dot and no one’s going to ring you to say where, where are you? You’ve been an orange for 20 minutes now.

Nish: 17:05

There’s another Simpsons reference going on as well, like, very, very like in the background. So podcasting 101 is don’t have a clock in view of your video recording.

Denika: 17:17

Oh really, why is that?

Nish: 17:18

Because if you edit it, the time’s going to move around, isn’t it? Oh right, Well, what have we got right behind over your shoulder?

Denika: 17:23

Oh, hello, isn’t it? Oh, what have?

Nish: 17:24

we got right behind over your shoulder. Oh hello, it’s a clock. That’s what it is tick tock yeah, so uh, the eagle-eyed people will be able to know when the editing. I love it you just can’t edit it. You’ll have to do this as the unedited edition just oh no, I know how many times I say um. So I think I’ll have to. I’ll have to do something with that um.

Denika: 17:47

So then we’ve got a little bit. So we’ve done plenty of shoulder stuff, we’ve done something for the spine and another spine. One is a bit of rotation. So basically you’re going to take your club holding it behind the head again. Sometimes you might find that your body wants to flex forward if you’re a little bit stiff. So do your best to be as upright as you can and then you just literally slowly turn in side to side. So that bit will. The deadlift is more for lower back area, whereas your rotation, or capturing your thoracic spine, so basically that bit of the back in between the shoulder blade area, you want to get as much rotation. It’s quite hard doing that on these chairs because they rotate as well. There you go. That’s an exercise gym. You could just be on here doing a great little little twist.

Denika: 18:29

Yeah, I’m generally lying on the couch um, but yeah, in terms of your swing and the mechanics of it, your thoracic spine is where the ribs attach into as well, so you can get stiffness around the rib cage, around the air in your back. So in terms of the mechanics of your swing, if you are quite stiff in that area I would imagine it would limit um your power and the force that you can apply.

Denika: 18:54

So just doing some rotational movements might help open up that area and just give you a bit more oomph in the swing as well.

Nish: 19:01

Yeah, I think when I was a more athletic swinger of a golf club.

Jim: 19:07

Which was when.

Nish: 19:09

There was a brief moment for a couple of months where I thought I was putting a lot of energy into a golf swing, but I must admit the ribs, or the rib area, were joining onto the spine around the back. That used to be the bit that gave me the most trouble.

Denika: 19:24

It can be a tricky. I always think the neck and the lower back you can do some decent stretches, but the thoracic spine, that mid area, can be tricky. Something else that can be really useful is a foam roller. So you can lie in a foam roller and do various different arm stretches and that can be quite effective. And if you’ve not got a foam roller, get yourself a big bath towel and just roll it up and lie across it and they can be really nice stretches just to. You might hear a bit of a crack and a bit of a release, but it’s a nice way to don’t be scared.

Denika: 19:56

I hate the foam roller because it hurts is it a bumpy one or a smooth one? Smooth yeah, the smooth, because a bumpy one trying to do that is just like some people love it. It’s like marmite but it’s like stick with a torture.

Nish: 20:08

I’d rather be in a rack yeah that’s like the ball, isn’t it for your plantar fasciitis? Same thing like I like that, that feeling of the little spines going into your foot. But some people just can’t stand it. Can they through people, yeah shoulder work.

Denika: 20:24

There lower back. We’ve got your mid back and then a firm one more, so we call it the bow and arrow stretch, so a bit like in robin hood times, when you pull your bow and arrow and then release it, um, but again, this is targeting the mid spine, the thoracic back. So, um, you’re basically going to bring palms together and then you pull one hand along the arm. One version is you can just pull the elbow back, or I really like is to open the hand behind you, because it gives your chest muscles a really nice stretch as well, and then you basically just sweep the arm back to the front and then you’d go on the other side.

Denika: 20:57

So again, it’s supposed to be like you’re pulling your bow and arrow, um, but that’s just a really nice way to open up your um, forearm muscles, your bicep, chest area and also, um, your nerve as well. So big nerve running through that area is your median nerve. So if you’ve heard of carpal tunnel syndrome, that’s when your median nerve gets compressed down in the wrist and causes all the tingling and numbness. And so, again, by doing that one stretch, you’re targeting your tendon, your muscle and your nervous tissue as well so it’s a bit of a triple whammy yeah, oh, that’s great.

Nish: 21:32

Yeah, actually all of those things there not the key takeaways for me there were you’re not overdoing anything, you’re just doing a little bit exactly no, just don’t try and break the form, just do a nice little yeah yeah, you know, less is more, as you said, and then that’s all stuff you can do at the tee box while you’re waiting for the rest of the group to tee off.

Jim: 21:49

And I think you know it’s not just on the first hole, it’s on pretty much. You know every hole. Yeah, you could do, yeah, couldn’t you.

Denika: 22:02

Whilst you’re talking and having a, then Just got this image, now you need to do a little video for me, if you’re all doing it.

Nish: 22:10

I’ll do the YMCA down the fairway. What’s Jim doing? Oh easy, I’m doing shoulder flex with a club. What are you doing? Bow and arrow.

Denika: 22:21

I need to see a video of this. I think everyone watching would like to see a video of this as well.

Nish: 22:26

This is TikTok fodder, it’s going to happen. Tiktok fodder. This is, isn’t it Royal St David’s, is it yeah?

Jim: 22:33

Forget the birdie dance.

Nish: 22:33

You pick what you dress up as no birdie dancing going on here. This is straight into YMCA TikTok. Yeah, I love it. Well, I, I mean, you alluded to it. Uh, so we will be able to catch that full warm-up routine, yeah, on youtube. Uh, I love doing this, by the way, but we’ll whack a link in the description of the episode. Oh, you could subscribe to the youtube channel and you’ll just get a notification when the video goes live. What? We’ve got a name for it. We’re calling it gilartes gilartes I.

Denika: 23:01

I don’t know if anyone else has coined it, so I Trademarks 2025.

Jim: 23:10

An IP lawyer Podcasts illegally.

Nish: 23:14

A podcast is a legally binding document, surely? Galartes, yeah More about that to come in the feed. I reckon we’ll have more on that. So this is a bit I’ve been really looking forward to, and I think this is the kind of real meat of the More about that to come in the feed. I reckon We’ll have more on that. So this is a bit I’ve been really looking forward to, and I think this is the kind of real meat of the episode for me today, which is the.

Nish: 23:35

Q&A segment, so I’ll give you the questions.

Denika: 23:36

Anika, yeah, and hopefully you can give us the answers. Hopefully I’ve got the answers of what I’ve done there. Jim’s ready to fact-check.

Nish: 23:40

Live fact-checking. First question uh, so we’ve got, obviously we’re going to get us, but pilates in general how can?

Denika: 23:49

that help with your golf so obviously I’m going to be very biased, because I love pilates we love biased, by the way yeah, no problem with that no problem with.

Nish: 23:59

It isn’t supposed to be impartial.

Denika: 24:01

This is our opinion, um but I think you know, for for me, pilates, when you think of your traditional pilates and joseph pilates, do you ever hear your traditional Pilates and Joseph Pilates? Did you ever hear the story of where it come from? There’s actually somebody called Pilates that’s who it’s named after Joseph Pilates do you know?

Nish: 24:18

I did not know that? Yeah, frank Pilates really briefly.

Denika: 24:23

So basically, joseph Pilates. It was during the war. I sound like the guy off Del Boyd during the war. I sound like the guy off delbo during the war, um, but yeah, he was basically um held in like a camp and he got injured. So he was always a bit sickly as a child and he used to go off into the woods in his underwear and do like um stretches and exercises and whatever. He’s been out there person. But basically while he was really sick in um in a hospital bed, he worked out that if he put the springs on like different levels, he could use the springs to like exercise. So if you’ve ever seen reformer polaris, where like people are on a bed and they’re like doing all sorts of crazy things, that’s where polates was born from, from this guy.

Nish: 25:11

I did not know, yeah, and.

Denika: 25:12

I think it was, was it the Isle of man? He was in some kind of like rehabilitative hospital. So anyways, after the war finished, him and his wife went over to New York and then basically New York at the time, all the performers, all the like artists, they would be like, all right, we’ll go and do pilates. So that’s where it’s set off. It become a big thing. But when you look at the exercises to do, you have to be super fit, super strong, super mobile. Some of them are like the classical pilates. You’re like whoa, like that’s, that’s mega, um. But for me I teach what we call clinical pilates. So it’s like physio led. So if you have got a bad shoulder, a bad back, there’s modifications. So rather than doing these extreme exercises, they’re based on the traditional principles but you’re making it a bit more tailored to people as well.

Jim: 26:03

Can I have a request at this particular point in time? Oh that when we do the Pilates demonstration in a little while that you may miss, do the classic oh my god, yeah, yeah, no deal, no deal I think people would pay good money for that maybe do it instead.

Nish: 26:20

It’ll be just as fun there’s not going to be a live video about this at all, though that’s fascinating. Yeah, I tell you what. Imagine your last name being pilates in the age of social media now I mean how many? Dms, are you getting? We’re going daniel pilates, yeah, whatever. Yeah, you’re taking a piss, mate. No, no, that’s actually my last name. I didn’t realize it was the last name that’s it.

Denika: 26:41

Yeah, so that’s what’s named after joseph wow, okay so, yes.

Denika: 26:44

So coming back to your question about, uh, how it relates to golf, I just think it’s a really nice way where again so coming back to your question about how it relates to golf, I just think it’s a really nice way where again it comes back to you could do a little bit through the week. It’s not practical to lie down on the golf course, I’m sure. So save them for doing them at home, but it’s just a nice way to keep the spine. And again, I’m thinking of with all that rotational movement, it’s important to make sure you’re keeping your spine flexible. Keeping it mobile doesn’t mean you have to be able to touch your toes, but if you’ve got good flexibility, good mobility, you’re less likely to have a build-up of injury then.

Nish: 27:19

So, yeah, it can be useful I mean, look, the two of the absolute titans of our game it’s tiger woods and rory mcelroy swear by doing pilates every single day, so you know if it’s good enough for them yeah, it’s good enough for the amateur golfer.

Nish: 27:32

Do you feel, if you’re doing Pilates, that there’s different benefits, uh, dependent on whether you’re a man or a woman, or age or anything like that? Do you think people get different benefits out of doing Pilates at different stages in their golfing career or is it just actually a general thing for everyone?

Denika: 27:50

Really interesting in terms of women is women going through the menopause. So if you’re going through the menopause, you get a big drop in oestrogen which can affect your bone density. So if you’re doing weight-bearing exercise, so you golf, you’re obviously on your feet, but if you’re doing Pilates to complement it, you’re getting your strengthening as well, because basically when you use either a weight or a resistance band, your um tendon attaches to the bone. So it’s quite good for the um, basically for your bone density, to be preserved by doing some strengthening and weight-bearing exercise, right. So that’s something that would be quite interesting. But yeah, I mean, you can get. It’s funny because my partner, leo, I remember years ago he was like, oh yeah, pilates, and then I actually got him to do some exercise and he was like, oh, all right, it’s actually harder than it looks.

Nish: 28:35

It’s like, yeah, you’re doing the classic stuff mate, you are doing the classic stuff.

Denika: 28:40

After that jibe um because some people were like, oh, pilates is just for girls and it’s like it’s not at all, like a lot of the big football clubs now, and even like in rugby, they will do yoga and pilates through the week because people are actually opening their eyes that you know what.

Nish: 28:54

It’s not just for girls, um, well, I mean, very famously, ryan gigs credited pilates with getting to 40. He was playing career. He was a big, I think it was. No, it was yoga, he said. He was like I do yoga every day for a couple of hours, sort of thing. Yeah, um, yeah, it’s like a massive thing in sports, isn’t it now, yeah, every sometimes.

Denika: 29:12

So yeah, I think for everyone there’s massive benefits and you know you’re not going to get your cardio. You can’t say pilates is the best thing since sliced bread for everything, because you’re not getting your cardiovascular. In some circles, if you’re doing they call it like you can do hip pilates or fitness pilates. That might then get your heart rate up, um, but yeah, it’s just, you can. I think there’s so many versions of it from that traditional joseph pilates um theory that he had through kind of times. Now everyone’s put like a bit of a different spin on it.

Denika: 29:42

I think it’s I think it’s very much complementary to all the other forms of exercise that you might be doing yeah, that’s why that’s why the footballers and sports people in general are starting to take to it yeah, a little bit more as you, as you quite rightly yeah and if you’re using it to complement what you’re already doing, the pilates could be like you’re resting, so you still you know you’re not lifting too heavy, you’re not out running, but it’s you’re still exercising. So it can be used as an active rest as well, which is doing a plank tends to get my heart rate going through the roof.

Nish: 30:16

We get past 30 seconds you’ve got 30 seconds left, I’m thinking, oh my goodness, no, everything is tough. It is tough really. And then when?

Jim: 30:20

you do the different variations of you know, one long plank, that’s it or are you doing like yeah, thread the needle I find it.

Nish: 30:30

I find it fascinating because it’s something I’ve wanted to get into for ages. Just, you know, the things get in the way and whatever, but everything looks very innocuous, isn’t it? And then you start doing it and you go oh, hang on a minute and it’s making sure you’re doing it correctly, because there’s loads of ways when we do the video.

Denika: 30:47

We will go through that. But there’s loads of way and people are cheating to be, you know, awkward or whatever. Your body will always find the easiest way to do something and it’s only when you’ve got someone else of the second pair of eyes you’re like all right, I didn’t realize I was doing that um, did do a class once pilates class a few years ago yeah it was awful.

Jim: 31:06

I’ve got not much flexibility and I think my even though I do quite a lot of weights and I do quite a lot of cardio, what I don’t do is I don’t do a lot of core work, and that’s one thing that’s interesting probably needs to do a lot more of, and that will be, yeah, probably another, and there’s plenty of classes down there, if you’re good to go give it a go, and if it was a while it’s mixed as well. There’s a lot. There’s a lot of men.

Denika: 31:28

This is it, I think there’s a lot of people now who especially like a lot of men who are like well, give it a go and actually you can see the benefits it’s like. Again, I think I talked about my brother on the podcast because he’s always injured, um, but like I was speaking to, him.

Nish: 31:43

Jordan had to get rinsed again. It had to be something else. What, what’s he done?

Denika: 31:46

now. So he did pull his back, lifting up the pug dog, which unfortunately on a side note, the pug dog’s no longer with us now, poor Al. There we go, such is life. But yeah, he just pulled his back lifting up the dog, and it’s not as if the dog was heavy, but anyways that was like Was the dog not getting lifted up enough?

Nish: 32:04

Is that what it was?

Denika: 32:10

His back enough. Is that what it was? He’s his back’s fine now, but he said he’s doing a little bit of the Pilates warm-up before he does a run, before he goes out on his bike. He is doing just four or five of the stretches and that’s probably what’s keeping him now injury free.

Nish: 32:21

Um, so yeah, it’s interesting this is applies to me as well at the time, but uh well, it certainly did. I suffer from tennis elbow. My arm really hurts after a round. What should I do?

Denika: 32:32

well, I can’t say don’t play golf, don’t say that no, definitely not as a physio. We want to be promoting people to stay moving, so um tennis elbow or lateral epicondylitis just rolls off. The sounds like a cocktail.

Nish: 32:45

It’s easy isn’t it just a little little sip of epicondylitis I?

Jim: 32:50

wouldn’t choose if it was on that cocktail menu.

Nish: 32:53

Yeah, that sounds a bit horrible, doesn’t it that? Sounds like something with a bit bit of yellow ooze coming out your elbows a flaming, a flaming epicondylitis, um sorry I’m not. I’m not putting you in charge of the tiki bar flaming epicondylitis. That’s how they are. Flaming epicondylitis now, haven’t I?

Denika: 33:17

um, but yeah, so that tends to be when. Again coming back to tendons, so when your tendon attaches to the bone and it’s your extensor, tendons are basically in your forearm. So where the tendon attaches to that piece of bone becomes inflamed again, your tendon fibers become bogged down with loads of water and inflammatory fluid and that means that the tensile strength isn’t as good. So in order to improve, that, specific exercise can be really useful. So really simple things having your arm on a bench or the arm of a chair and just doing on its own. Sometimes that can be enough.

Nish: 33:52

That, actually, if it’s really sore you don’t want any weight, just roll the wrist up now what sometimes will happen is the arm will want to move up.

Denika: 34:00

So you want to keep your forearm down and it is literally just the wrist. And if you actually put if you find you the bony bit of your elbow, let’s do a little practical and then just come slightly forward you’ll feel a little bit of a bony bit there and then, if you come slightly forward again and then lift up your wrist, you’ll feel it kind of just moving underneath it.

Denika: 34:21

Yeah, so that’s your your extensor muscle belly, and so basically, you want to get that as strong as you can. So once it’s not painful on its own, you could then use a little piece of band, resistance band um, tin of beans doesn’t need to be too heavy. And basically you want to do three sets of between eight and twelve repetitions. So if it’s really sore you might just do one set of eight and that’s it. And again if you’re doing higher repetitions, so if you’re on to like free sets, um, you want to make sure you’ve got a rest day in between it because, as we know, muscle breaks down, builds up to recover. So if you’re over training, if you were doing it every single day, it could cause it to flare up, whereas doing it, say, monday, wednesday, friday, maybe once at the weekend, um, you’re giving it ample rest time as well. So, rehab wise, that’s what’s really useful. The epicondylitis or the tennis elbow clasp can be. Really, what did you think of that? Did it make a difference?

Nish: 35:16

yeah, I mean initially um my elbow was just generally very painful so I probably did. You’re probably going to tell me off for this and it might not be the right thing to do, but you know I was like I just had it on at home yeah, just for an extended period of time um and then just took it off at night and I did that for a couple of days. Actually, that seemed to to whether it took the load off.

Nish: 35:37

I don’t know what it was, but it seems to have eased it, it is painful after I play um, particularly when you’re doing a a very hardcore club fitting session, but I bought some new clubs, so it’s fine, uh, that got me through it. Um, but yeah, that’s, that’s definitely helped and I will just wear that now when I’m playing golf, because I just know yeah it’s just helpful, so why?

Denika: 36:05

the thing is, there’s no harm. I’d say to people, don’t become too over reliant on it, but say if you started implementing your wrist exercises, you’d find then you’re probably not having to wear it as often or maybe for as long, so you might wear it for like the second half of the round rather than wearing it all the time. Um, but yeah, they’re the top tips wean yourself off. Wean yourself off it, that’s fair enough.

Nish: 36:27

Um okay, uh, this is probably a good question actually. Um, is muscle bulk more important or is it better to have a strong core? In your opinion, oh, good question.

Denika: 36:39

So, and there’s lots of deliberation over the core in the physio world as well. So years ago we used to think that if you had a weak core, that’s what was causing your back pain. However, it’s not as simple as that, because with back pain, we know it can be physical things that affect it.

Denika: 36:58

So you’ve overdone it on the golf course, you’ve overdone it picking up your pug dog, and so we know there’s there’s certain things that could set it off and there’s a message jordan with that give me his number um, but there’s massive research gone into back pain over recent years, um, and we also know now that poor sleep is a massive factor in in back pain and generally, um, persistent pain. So if you’re not sleeping well, your body doesn doesn’t produce as much as your human growth factor, so it’s a certain type of hormone. So if you’ve not got enough human growth factor, then your protein synthesis and your muscle regeneration doesn’t happen as well. So, yeah, so physical things poor sleep and also mood can have a big impact on it. So if, because of pain or whatever else is going on in life, mood is lower, you’ve got more stress hormones, your cortisol and your adrenaline running and your natural painkillers reduces, um, so, yeah, so I think in terms of, like, muscle bulk versus the core, um, I would say that generally doing something through the week.

Denika: 38:08

So there’s there’s government guidelines about how much exercise we should all be doing. So we should all do 150 minutes of activity that gets us hot, sweaty and out of breath. So that might be for some people going to the gym, personal training sessions, walking, getting out on a bike, going for a swim, and so that would be 150 minutes and it does sound like oh gosh, that’s an awful lot, but you can do 30 minutes over five days. You could do 10 minutes on one day, a bit longer than another. It doesn’t really matter, as long as you’re doing that total and a lot of people. I’m wearing mine. I’ve got some kind of app or whatever that you can keep track of it.

Nish: 38:45

Um so what’s that what we got? Oh, your phone you watch. Sorry, so I thought you had one of those uh, you know those whoop uh bracelets. Have you seen those?

Denika: 38:56

no, what’s that?

Nish: 38:58

it’s a new celeb trend or something. I think they’re 150 quid or something a month or something crazy. Like it’s an activity track. It tracks everything, like it’s tracking all your full sleep and whatever.

Denika: 39:07

Then it advises on what you need to change in your life.

Jim: 39:11

It’s like one of those watches which tells you that you’ve been sat down for too long.

Denika: 39:15

Yeah, that’s what this does. It’s like stand up yeah.

Jim: 39:17

Okay.

Denika: 39:17

Yeah.

Jim: 39:18

But this is the next level is it.

Denika: 39:20

I won’t say the brand of mine.

Nish: 39:21

Control.

Denika: 39:22

What were we talking about? Oh, yeah, activ activities. So, in terms of the core and muscle bulk, don’t get too hung up on that. Make sure you’re doing your 150 minutes a week, which can be broken down, but within that you should be doing two strength sessions. So it might be that you’re going to the gym using the weights. There, it might be that you’re doing some pilates and you’re using your body as resistance, or it might be using exercise bands or small weights, um, and I think, just doing a good rounded program.

Denika: 39:49

Because if all you’re ever focusing on is your back or you’re only ever focusing on your shoulder, again I would say and probably most physios would agree with me you want to do a complementary program where you’re doing, maybe, chest and arms, you’re doing lower back, you’re doing a leg day. Um, yeah, we want to be making sure, and especially as I hate to talk about age, but as we all age and get older, it becomes even more important because if you’re not strong as you get older, you’re more at risk of falls. Women are more at risk of osteoporosis if they’re not doing exercise. So, yeah, so everyone, just the comfort terms with their age is a factor.

Jim: 40:25

Yeah, you know, and with your bone density reduces as you get older as well. So by actually doing the exercise, the strength exercises, counteract exactly because people just assume that you just you know to lose weight, except you just do a huge amount of cardio and yeah it is effective, of course, to some extent, but it becomes more difficult as you get older. Yeah, and what your knees wear down it is.

Denika: 40:47

It’s really interesting. As you get older yeah, and what it is. It’s really interesting. As you get older men and women, your muscle actually gets replaced more with adipose, with fat tissue so again, that means that we do know about but that means then, simple things like getting off a chair people can struggle with.

Denika: 41:05

If you have a fall, you can’t get yourself up. So, yeah, there’s loads, I always say, and it’s it’s a common thing to say, but like, exercise is literally the best pill. If people could just exercise a little bit more and you know what it doesn’t have to be. You know, like, right, that’s it, I’m gonna go to the gym every single day. It’s small things get off the bus a stop earlier, go up the stairs instead of using a lift.

Denika: 41:27

It’s making lifestyle tweaks as well, which can be really helpful, um, and I just think you feel better for it. Last night I was like, oh, do I go to the gym? And it’s like danika, it’s around the corner, you’ve got no excuse not to go. But I was sat with a blanket on me, nice and cozy, and I thought, no, that’s it, get up and go.

Nish: 41:45

And I felt so much better for it the, uh, the disgraced cyclist lance armstrong had a good one with that, didn’t he with? With no excuses, I mean, he’s actually.

Nish: 41:54

His book is brilliant oh, I read that book and it’s amazing, if you take away the fact that he’s lied in the whole thing, you know, and everything was all cheating. But if you take all that away, some actual advice in there was fantastic. There was one where he said get rid of the excuse. He said you know, I will have my trainers, I’ll go to sleep in my running gear or my exercise gear and I’ll have my trainers next to the bed. So when I get up my feet, just go into the train. I’m just ready to go.

Nish: 42:17

Yeah, there’s no excuse there that’s it um, yeah, psychologically that’s, that’s a great thing. Just forget all the hardcore drugs that he was doing to, to get his advantage and then cried it in about having testicular cancer. But there you go, don’t sue us lance. Um, oh, you admitted it, so it’s fine. So it’s all open. Open season, um, this is a really good one, I think. Uh, what exercise exercises can I do around the home to help with my golf if I don’t have time to go to the gym?

Denika: 42:47

I think you’ve sort of touched upon that, yeah some people it depends, so housework can actually count as exercise. So as long as you’re getting your heart, light up to light vigorous hoovering vigorous hoovering I want to break free that, that was that was a brilliant phrase, that vigorous hoover.

Nish: 43:10

Is there any other way to hoover?

Jim: 43:15

but no um it’s a stare up, isn’t it? Oh yeah, I’m doing again one day, you might honestly.

Denika: 43:23

Well, you see, if you did your own hoovering, you’d know yeah, I don’t do that there’s very little housework I do actually um, but yeah, at home again there’s loads of stuff. So you could do my um youtube channel politely with danika, like and subscribe. You could do that at home.

Nish: 43:40

I keep you going oh yeah, no cross promoting. Oh, that’s why you’re here. Is it stealing our listeners?

Denika: 43:52

um, but yeah, there’s again you, you can use body weight, so it might be. Um, we say there’s different parameters for what you want to work on. So for strength, we normally say between 8 and 12 repetitions, and for endurance, you want to look at 15 to 20 repetitions. So it could be. You think, do you know what I do it with when my little one’s asleep? Sometimes I think, right, I’ll do a little workout, I’ve got 10 minutes before she’s probably going to realize I’m not holding her and she decides to wake up. So it’d be like, do things like squats, lunges, and you can use your body weight. If you’ve not even got any weights, um, you could hold a plank, you could do some press-ups, pick four or five exercises, 15 to 20 reps and see how many rounds of that that you could do. So that’s just like a bit of an idea it’s like a person, like a mini hit class exactly, yeah, um, and I think again it’s just looking at what space have you got.

Denika: 44:45

You don’t need loads of space. As long as you can put a towel down or a mat, that’s enough space. Um, and there’s loads of good things out there. So if you wanted to try um yoga, there’s yoga with adrian. She does loads of free stuff on youtube. And if you really want to go into the hit side of things, the joe bicks um videos. I’ve done them in the past and they’re quite useful. Um, and hopefully, from the videos that we’re going to do, it might just give people a few ideas as well of what stuff is useful?

Nish: 45:12

Great, okay, I think this is a very specific question, but after every round my back is really painful, particularly the lower back, and I can struggle to stand up or sit down. What do you advise I should do?

Denika: 45:26

So back pain is very common. I think I said this last time. So 80% of people will have back pain at very common I think I said this last time. So yeah, 80 percent of people will have back pain at some point in life. I was.

Denika: 45:35

I was like eight, wow, that’s 80, oh eight zero wow, wow, times 10, yeah, yeah um, and there can be loads of different reasons for it. So most, most back pain will be what they call non-specific lower back pain. So it could be stiffness in the joints, tightness in the muscle, the discs a little bit inflamed, and so that’s classically where you get your pain in your lower back. Sometimes it can refer down the back, so your legs, into your knees, and it tends to be quite movement related. So bending forward, twisting things like that can aggravate it. You can then getatica, which is a real pain in the bum. So that’s where your sciatic nerve as it comes through back of your buttock area all the way down to your foot and ankle, that becomes very irritated and inflamed. So that can give you pins and needles, numbness. That’s sharp. People describe it as like an electric shock type pain.

Denika: 46:33

So depending on which type of back pain it is would depend on what you need to do. So if it’s after a round of golf, that’s particularly sore, get some heat on there. So the big debate about heat versus ice, and if something looks generally warm and inflamed, ice is better. But if something’s quite achy, quite stiff, hot and hot pack would be useful. Or get in the shower or the bath, especially like if you can get into the bath and have a soak. That means then your muscles are a bit more warmed up. So to do your stretches afterwards would be really nice.

Denika: 47:00

So some of the exercises that we’re going to do as a warm up you could also do them after a hot bath as a bit of a cool down and just to stretch things out and pain relief again, you might want to take a little bit paracetamol. Ibuprofen is always a bit controversial because if you’ve had an injury they say avoid it for at least 72 hours because your body goes through an inflammatory response to injury. So if you’re then taking the ibuprofen you might slow down what your body’s naturally really good at doing. And yeah, I think that’s the main thing. So if it’s quite sore, heat, pain relief if you need it. But the biggest thing is movement. So gentle exercises to try and ensure that the area that’s feeling a bit sore because it’s very easy to be like, oh, I’m just going to rest it and do nothing because I don’t want to make it worse, but quite often it’s modifying things. So you still keep it moving and you’re not necessarily going to make it worse.

Nish: 47:52

If anything, it’s going to help your recovery I mean, I used to get a really sore lower back, um, and yeah, you’d, you’d finish yeah you sit in your car to drive home. Yeah, you get home and you’re like, oh you know, sit down, you go. Oh yeah, I’m feeling right now because the weight’s off yeah and you spend half an hour with me.

Nish: 48:11

I’m just like going through all the stats and what have I done in the round? And then suddenly you go right, I’ve got upstairs and I’ve showered, you go. Oh, oh, no. Yeah, it feels like it’s seized up. Yeah, which was a horrible cycle. Right, remove all of that from your yeah from your life, um, but yeah, I can imagine if you, if you’re stuck in that cycle, it’s it’s pretty debilitating and that’s where then.

Denika: 48:48

So for some people it might be like the next day it’s fine, it’s easing off a bit, they’re carrying on. But if you do get into a cycle where you think you know you it’s affecting your life because you’re not able to do then other activities through the week. It is.

Denika: 49:02

They call it the chronic pain cycle so that’s when it, then it’s not just the physical stuff it affects. You might not be sleeping well, because you can’t get in a good position. If you’re not sleeping well, you’re not doing the things you want to do. That’s going to have an impact on mood, and then it comes back to the whole thing. You’ve got more stress hormones than good hormones, and which then can have an impact on your pain as well. So, yeah, so it’s really interesting how it’s all connected. So, as long as you’re keeping yourself moving, using a little bit of heat, hopefully, then it’s going to promote you back to what do you think about stuff like deep heat?

Denika: 49:35

yeah, so there’s no scientific evidence that like one thing is better than the other, but like if it’s warm in your back you might use deep heat heat spray. You can get the little stick on heat pads. Um, I had one years ago that was really good. It was like a little belt thing where you could put the hot pack in the microwave and then you could wear it that was really good. Um so yeah, just whatever is more something delivers warm?

Jim: 49:58

yeah, exactly, yeah, okay that’s quite interesting, but I don’t know if it’s kind of similar, for if it’s an ankle sprain or something, you always use rice.

Denika: 50:07

So it’s when I say rest ice compression elevation, that’s it, yeah but that obviously wouldn’t be used for your back yeah, and it’s interesting because some patients of mine have been like, oh, I’ve used an ice pack and it was really helpful on my back and I’m like, okay, great, I think it’s finding what works best for you. The only thing I think of with cold it tends to make you tense and then what you don’t want to do is be tensing around the area because it’s just adding to potential more muscle spasm, whereas with the heat it’s more of that relaxation. But again, some people might say ice is better for them. Um, but yeah, I think go with what, go with what you’re comfortable with um, but I thought this is quite a good one.

Nish: 50:43

It says I want to play golf for longer in life. Are there any habits I should have that will help me achieve that?

Denika: 50:50

yeah. So I think, like we said, we touched on getting older. So make sure you’re doing 150 minutes of exercise each week. That gets your heart rate up, gets you hot and sweaty. Do two strength sessions, so again using your own body weight, using small weights, resistance bands, and by doing that you’re making sure you’ve got your muscle bulk and you’re still keeping yourself fit and mobile. There’s another little thing that you can do as well. So basically sit to stand from a chair. So if you sit I won’t do it on these because these are spinny ones, I don’t want to fall off it but if you sit on a chair, that’s safe, hands across your chest and time in a minute how many times you can sit and stand up. And I can’t remember now off the top of my head, but basically for each decade of life there’s how many times you should be able to do that it sounds like quite an easy thing to do, but I bet it’s one of these things where you start doing it and you go oh yeah, well, I did.

Jim: 51:45

There’s something in the on the in the telegraph and it was about are you how fit, are you for your age? And it’s looking at you. Know you do a test like you do you do kind of test, it’s it’s like a reader’s digest test one of them is is you know?

Denika: 51:59

you sat on a bench and it’s you’ve got your leg extended so you’re trying to stand up and sit down with one on one leg.

Jim: 52:06

So it’s looking at your balance and coordination as in addition to your strength, yeah, um. So they say you know, can you do this, can you do that, can you do that, can you do that? You’re, you’re quite, you’re all right for your age range. I was thinking all right.

Nish: 52:19

All right for my age. Oh bless, you’re all right for your age.

Jim: 52:24

It’s quite dispirited actually I could do most of the exercise. I tried to do that one. You know when he’s standing up on one leg and I think I was falling over. Yeah, I hadn’t had a drink either no, and it’s.

Denika: 52:34

It’s interesting because sometimes you’re like, oh, that’s easy, and then you do it. You think, well, actually that’s quite challenging and you should always. Another tip is you should always do something that challenges and challenges you as well, because your body’s really good at getting fitter and adapting and then you can end up plateauing and you’re not making that physical progress. So as soon as you know if you’re doing your sit to stand and you can do 12 with a five kilogram weight, you go right. Can I do 12 with eight kilograms, 10 kilograms? And it’s important as well that you’re just building things gradually, because it’s like anything if you’re rushing to try and progress yourself too much, too quickly, then you’re at risk of maybe overdoing things and injuries. Um so yeah, um so yeah. I’d say, if you’re gonna do anything, drink a glass of milk, get out and get active for 150 minutes and strengthen yourself two sessions a week unless your lactose intolerant.

Nish: 53:27

Don’t drink the milk then oh yeah don’t love it. Well, I think we’ve we’ve covered all the the, the q a bits and that’s been very detailed.

Nish: 53:38

So thank you no problem, thanks for having me now, obviously we’d love you to everything that we’ve discussed videos and things like that. We’ll have those links in the description. Um, we’d love you to uh, you know, to like the video, to subscribe to to the youtube channel because you get all the latest updates. Uh, please give pilates, pilates with danika on instagram. Follow, uh. And you’ve got a facebook page as well, so I’ll pop that link in um, because danika always puts like, really like helpful videos and things like that.

Nish: 54:08

We’re talking about it on the way over. It’s it’s great because it’s. You know, it’s not this. Sorry, this is gonna sound horrible you’re not projecting this image of perfection no, that’s it like you’re a real person yeah going through a journey, and that’s that’s relatable, that’s authentic. So that’s what I meant by it.

Denika: 54:30

Yeah, and I think it’s so true, because I was saying on the way down, I was gonna, I did a video and I was like, oh god, I look a bit. I look really fat in that video. I won’t post it. It’s like I’m seven months after having a baby. You know, you do see people who are just like bouncing back, as they say, and it’s like no, it is like it’s real hard and it’s real life, yeah and hopefully, if other people see me doing exercise and I’m seven months postnatal, it might inspire them to think you know what that girl’s got a baby.

Denika: 54:56

I have a baby. Find five minutes of time, I think yeah, I think it’s nice, then, to be able to share that with people, but how?

Nish: 55:01

many people go. There’s no way. She’s only had a baby two months ago. You know that kind of thing because it’s just yeah, that’s not me, that’s. I’ve only just about figured out how to get myself dressed in the morning and have a shower.

Nish: 55:13

Yeah, absolutely, um and then, yes, from us, from myself and jim, anyway, please do share these episodes because it does, it does really help and, and you know, drop us a review apple, I think, is probably the best place to drop us a review, but that would be, uh, very much appreciated. So, uh, yeah, I think. Thank you, danika, thank you jim thanks for hosting in your wonderful apartment.

Denika: 55:33

Thanks for having us and thanks for lunch thank you for lunch.

Nish: 55:39

Until next time on the top 100 in 10 golf podcast.